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Has anybody compared edge holding on CPM154 with the others?

Bruce Bump

Bruce Bump

Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Messages
9,910
I am looking to buy some stainless and need some input on real tests. I have been satisfied with S30v and BG42 but will go with CPM154 if you guys say it is better. Now that it has been out in the field for awhile do you think it holds as good or better edge than the others? It costs more but cost isnt the deciding factor with me.
 
The information I have from Crucible is that it is tougher by a significant margin and finishes much better to a mirror polish. Edge holding has always been good on 154CM and should be about the same on the CPM offering - but it would not be expected to outperform S30V or BG42 for edge holding because it lacks the hard vanadium carbides (you know - the ones that make them hard to finish. :rolleyes: )

The makers that have bought CPM154 from me are re-ordering it and really like it.

I'm not aware of any makers with other than anecdotal experience yet.

Not what you wanted, but hope it helps a bit.

Rob!
 
I can not remember who it was, but someone commented on here one time that he had compared CPM154 edge holding to S30V and the way it was put was that if S30V made 10 cuts, the CPM154 would make 7. Bruce did you find that the CPM154 is more expensive than the 30V?
 
I havent priced anything out yet. Its like I say Im not too worried about the price of the steel but I really need the best edge holding.
 
CPM154 is less expensive than CPM S30V. Maybe 10% or so depending on size and supplier.

Bruce, if you really need the best edge holding and you want to stick with steel, try S90V. 10 times the wear resistance of D2 - and it is stainless.
 
Rob is the S90v the same as their CPM440v? I cant keep up with the names changes at my age.
 
Almost. S30V is 420V. The 440V was S60V.

I have no evidence - and the specifications say I'm wrong - but I kind of favor the S30V. I worry the others are "over alloyed" if there is such a thing.

I bought a Kershaw Avalanche in 440V. The tip snapped off while I was cutting leather on a 'plastic' cutting board. That's not scientific - just anecdotal, but it introduced a little doubt in my mind.

The specs suggest that S90V just rocks!

Rob!
 
Rob! said:
Almost. S30V is 420V. The 440V was S60V.

I have no evidence - and the specifications say I'm wrong - but I kind of favor the S30V. I worry the others are "over alloyed" if there is such a thing.

I bought a Kershaw Avalanche in 440V. The tip snapped off while I was cutting leather on a 'plastic' cutting board. That's not scientific - just anecdotal, but it introduced a little doubt in my mind.

The specs suggest that S90V just rocks!

Rob!
Click to expand...

Please correct me if I am wrong but I believe that S90V is CPM420V and S60V is CPM440V. Those, along with S30V are not that tough. In other words, experience edge chipping, especially if the blade geometry is incorrect.

I have never used CPM154 but from what I understand it is on a par with RWL34 which will take a mirror polish that is unsurpassed.

If it is your goal to have a knife with an extremely good mirror polish AND will hold a decent edge (and must be stain-resistant) then CPM154 is the ticket. Otherwise, S30V would be the better choice. As far as S60V or CPM440V, although edge holding is really good, the edge does tend to chip, or it did with my experience anyway. (I was able to field dress and quarter 7 deer with one knife between sharpenings.)

L6 also takes a good mirror polish if you don't need it to be stainless.

Craig
 
everything i have read aout cpm154 say its just below s30v for edge holding
i cant say i have tested the 2 side by side because i havent done any s30v yet
cpm154 gets sharp stays nice and sharp a while fro me its more about ease of finishing and heat treat
if someone askes me about more edge holding i see if they can stand a non stainless steel like 3v or 10v (i love 3v)
most of my cpm154 has gone to kitchen knives and light hunting /edc knives nothign real hard on edges

i can tell you this i can cut yards and yards of fabric (rolled up and on a wood board) with it and it will still shave hair for me the next step up is 3v
butch
 
"tip snapped off" I've had that happen with more than one knife and I'm sure it's a problem of poor HT [over heating ] and/or grinding damage . Tips are VERY easy to over heat in HT or grinding. Those knives that tips broke never were a problem after I reground !!....CPM has received good comments from makers on this forum .As expected , easy to grind ,easy for the user to sharpen ,easy for the maker to polish [no inclusions either]. Not much in the way of negative comments.
 
Thanks Larrin, was just in the process of finding this link for Bruce.

Bruce, I have made several knifes with CPM 154 and it is at this point one of my favorite steels. Very fine grain, and the heat I have is very clean. Heat treating is easier than 154CM. Use the same general recipe and you will easily get 1 point higher hardness. It grinds soft like all the other stainless's and grinding hard is a breeze compared to 30V or 90V . Finish is nice, pretty much like 154CM but with out the orange peel type grain you see in this one or D2. The cutting tests Larrin gave the link to show that it's edge holding is better than 154 CM, probably beacuse of the higher hardness and finer grain, you can just get it sharper to start with. Cost doesn't seem to too high, I just got some stock from POP's knife supply and seems to be about $20 per pound... If you need any more detail just give me a personal e mail... Phil
 
It seems to me I can get cpm154 to a sharper edge than s30v. It seems to me s30v holds an edge slightly longer than cpm154 but not all that much.

I know cpm154 takes a much deeper mirror polish than s30v. It's much easier to get there also. You can get mirror polish on s30v but it takes a long time and then it's not all that great of a mirror. You just sort of give up on it.

I've had s30v pit from flash rust. ATS34 does the same thing but I haven't seen that from cpm154. I'm not sure why cpm154 is that much more corrosion resistant than ats34 but that's been my experience.

s30v is a huge pain in the ass to sharpen even with a shop full of knife making equipment. What does the average knife user sharpen it with?

When I finish up my current stock of s30v, I'm switching to cpm154.
 
tmickley said:
I'm not sure why cpm154 is that much more corrosion resistant than ats34 but that's been my experience.
Click to expand...
Because of the more even distribution of smaller carbides, you would expect the distribution of chromium and molybdenum to be more even in the matrix. So even if the percentage of chromium and molybdenum is the same, the corrosion resistance should be greater.
 
Thanks guys for all replies.
Larrin, Thankyou for the helpful link to Phils thread
Phil, You are amazing. Thanks
 
Their knife steel service center is 20 minutes from where I live. Great place.

If you want exact specs check out their page.

http://www.crucibleservice.com/products/cutlery.cfm

The times I have delt with them they have been very professional.
My advice would be to stick with the 154cm. The S30V I have eats belts left and right compared to the 154cm and the S30V dosent finish as nice as the 154cm. Sure you get an edge that holds a little bit longer, but it is much more difficult to get sharp again.
 
Dave, do you mean stick with 154CM or CPM 154? The CPM version is a big improvement over the older one in every way you look at it.

Phil
 
Larrin, I had some extensive conversations with Crucible, Ed Tarney on CPM 154 and I have notes on all of it. Fire me an e mail and I will send it too you, or anyone who is interested, also want to follow up on a few things with you and Devin. Phil
 
I was quoted a price of $64 for a 1/8"x11/2"x36" ground bar of CPM154 from Crucible today.
 
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