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Has Anybody Reviewed a Kershaw Groove? N/M
- Thread starter diamdave
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I have one. Haven't reviewed it publically though.
I will say this. I have passed it around a bit and tested it cutting against the JunkYardDogII, StormII and JYD. Of the three cutting 1/2" hemp rope, cardboard, and old carpet pulled up from a kitchen the JunkYardDogII is the best performer of the ones I have. All were tested right out of the box with factory edges.
I noted that the Groove, and Storm were both quite uncomfortable after about 25 slices in the hemp rope which forced me to continue on to 50 by putting on gloves first. Surprisingly the JYD and JYDII both were quite comfortable and capable through all 50 cuts. I noted the edge was thinner and the bevel angle steeper on both of these making them effective slicers compared to the rather obtuse factory edges that were on both the Groove and the Storm. I felt at first that that grooves on the blade of the Groove were causing undue friction, but after getting it back good and dull from several people handling it I finally put a new bevel on it with the Edge Pro at 15 degrees per side. I used the 120 grit stone first, then followed that with the 220 grit followed by one swipe each side on the 1200 grit ceramic rod.
The difference in performance after doing this was night and day. Its now up with the JYDII if not better at cutting all the above mediums and this time with 50 slices in the hemp no gloves were even needed as it was effectively slicing off clean cuts of the hemp with relative ease compared to the first run.
Of the four the Groove is the one everyone just loves and goes nuts over. I could have sold it five times over by simply consenting to let anyone of the guys I let use it buy it from me for a quick profit too since at the time they were not readily available. In the looks dept. the Groove and the little JYD with the Air Force logos are both winners. The Storm was the least favored in performance and looks over all of them and the flipper on the Groove makes the others look and feel less adequate. The Groove is the only one that you can flip the blade out on easily with no additional wrist flick help like needed for all the others and this is true of the Groove even when holding the knife straight up so the blade has to go against gravity to lock into the open position. It flips right out with nothing more than a movement of the index finger by itself. I can't duplicate this with any of the other knives with flippers I currently own.
Opinions on the pocket clip on both JYD folders is about 50/50 at this point. Seems there is no gray area with it as folks either absolutely love it or hate it. On my Groove when I went to flip the clip to tip up carry the G10 over scale prevented the clip from seating and required my taking the scale off to sand down the extension on it so the clip could be mounted. I noted that the pocket clip covered the lanyard hole a little once screwed down into the final mount position for tip up carry. Both of these things were reported to Thomas Welk as soon as I noted them and he took immediate action to fix it on their end but I understand a few got out before it was remedied. Neither are anything major or that hard to fix on your own though.
I have to say I really like the Groove. It has a great balance, the G10 overlays are quite nice for perfect grip but not so aggresive that they tear up pants and of cours as already noted its a real head turner for looks. Not the kind of folder you want to lay down and turn your back on for long thats for sure.
The flipper operation of the Groove is simply the best I have ever used and is certainly as smooth as the nicest customs I have bought in recent years. For the price any of these recent knives to come out by Kershaw are very good values. Get one you won't regret it. I kid you not when I tell you that you could buy a production knife for three or four times the money of any of these Kershaw knives and not get as smooth an operating knife or as precise machining. Kershaw has really done something wonderful here with all of these. And the fact that each is affortable, and made in the USA really puts Kershaw up in the very top of my rankings for favorite companies and favorite products.
I like all of these knives. The biggest problem with having all of them is not knowing which one I want to carry from one day to the next. The JYDII and Groove are currently seeing the most pocket time but ask me again next week and I'm sure I'll be carrying something else. Especially if Thomas and Kershaw come up with something new that I see that strikes my fancy.
I have found test results of knife makers using Sandvik steek and bending it to a set, and then bending it back to straight with no harm to the blades which shows wonderful toughness akin to some of the carbon steels if you ask me. I can tell you from using it that all of these knives from Kershaw have wonderfully stable edges that reflect very little light back along the edge, have never chipped out or shown any real problem areas to me even after very heavy abusive cutting with them at times and overall have moved up the Sandvik rankings in my ratings of blade steels in stainless right along with Kershaw. The blades of this 13C26 stainless sharpen up easily, and perform quite well from course slicing edges to extremely highly polished stropped ones and they hold the edge you put on them very well.
STR
I will say this. I have passed it around a bit and tested it cutting against the JunkYardDogII, StormII and JYD. Of the three cutting 1/2" hemp rope, cardboard, and old carpet pulled up from a kitchen the JunkYardDogII is the best performer of the ones I have. All were tested right out of the box with factory edges.
I noted that the Groove, and Storm were both quite uncomfortable after about 25 slices in the hemp rope which forced me to continue on to 50 by putting on gloves first. Surprisingly the JYD and JYDII both were quite comfortable and capable through all 50 cuts. I noted the edge was thinner and the bevel angle steeper on both of these making them effective slicers compared to the rather obtuse factory edges that were on both the Groove and the Storm. I felt at first that that grooves on the blade of the Groove were causing undue friction, but after getting it back good and dull from several people handling it I finally put a new bevel on it with the Edge Pro at 15 degrees per side. I used the 120 grit stone first, then followed that with the 220 grit followed by one swipe each side on the 1200 grit ceramic rod.
The difference in performance after doing this was night and day. Its now up with the JYDII if not better at cutting all the above mediums and this time with 50 slices in the hemp no gloves were even needed as it was effectively slicing off clean cuts of the hemp with relative ease compared to the first run.
Of the four the Groove is the one everyone just loves and goes nuts over. I could have sold it five times over by simply consenting to let anyone of the guys I let use it buy it from me for a quick profit too since at the time they were not readily available. In the looks dept. the Groove and the little JYD with the Air Force logos are both winners. The Storm was the least favored in performance and looks over all of them and the flipper on the Groove makes the others look and feel less adequate. The Groove is the only one that you can flip the blade out on easily with no additional wrist flick help like needed for all the others and this is true of the Groove even when holding the knife straight up so the blade has to go against gravity to lock into the open position. It flips right out with nothing more than a movement of the index finger by itself. I can't duplicate this with any of the other knives with flippers I currently own.
Opinions on the pocket clip on both JYD folders is about 50/50 at this point. Seems there is no gray area with it as folks either absolutely love it or hate it. On my Groove when I went to flip the clip to tip up carry the G10 over scale prevented the clip from seating and required my taking the scale off to sand down the extension on it so the clip could be mounted. I noted that the pocket clip covered the lanyard hole a little once screwed down into the final mount position for tip up carry. Both of these things were reported to Thomas Welk as soon as I noted them and he took immediate action to fix it on their end but I understand a few got out before it was remedied. Neither are anything major or that hard to fix on your own though.
I have to say I really like the Groove. It has a great balance, the G10 overlays are quite nice for perfect grip but not so aggresive that they tear up pants and of cours as already noted its a real head turner for looks. Not the kind of folder you want to lay down and turn your back on for long thats for sure.
The flipper operation of the Groove is simply the best I have ever used and is certainly as smooth as the nicest customs I have bought in recent years. For the price any of these recent knives to come out by Kershaw are very good values. Get one you won't regret it. I kid you not when I tell you that you could buy a production knife for three or four times the money of any of these Kershaw knives and not get as smooth an operating knife or as precise machining. Kershaw has really done something wonderful here with all of these. And the fact that each is affortable, and made in the USA really puts Kershaw up in the very top of my rankings for favorite companies and favorite products. I like all of these knives. The biggest problem with having all of them is not knowing which one I want to carry from one day to the next. The JYDII and Groove are currently seeing the most pocket time but ask me again next week and I'm sure I'll be carrying something else. Especially if Thomas and Kershaw come up with something new that I see that strikes my fancy.
I have found test results of knife makers using Sandvik steek and bending it to a set, and then bending it back to straight with no harm to the blades which shows wonderful toughness akin to some of the carbon steels if you ask me. I can tell you from using it that all of these knives from Kershaw have wonderfully stable edges that reflect very little light back along the edge, have never chipped out or shown any real problem areas to me even after very heavy abusive cutting with them at times and overall have moved up the Sandvik rankings in my ratings of blade steels in stainless right along with Kershaw. The blades of this 13C26 stainless sharpen up easily, and perform quite well from course slicing edges to extremely highly polished stropped ones and they hold the edge you put on them very well.
STR
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I simply cut up boxes with them. With all the mail I get I get an abundance of boxes bigger than I can reuse so I always have plenty of card board around in the way of the extra large fed x and priority mail boxes and thicker brown card boxes from UPS. The JYD knives took a bit more to stab than the Storm or Groove but none of them were slowed down by card. All of the knives performed well cutting card board boxes up.
The longer blade models were easier to use for this to me over the smaller JYD which took more effort to get through a cut. The Groove seemed to me to require a bit more effort and did seem to drag a bit in the thicker boxes though, but hardly enough to make note of really. As I said they all do the job. Stabbing even the wider more obtuse blade models was no problem due to the very good grips all of these models have. The locks are so stout and so trustworthy on all these that I felt hard stabbing with confidence was a given with any of them, particularly the frame locking ones.
I mentioned in another thread already about another but will make mention of it here. In a separate test I ran some cutting trials with just the Storm II (a different one than the one used above) that Thomas asked me if I'd be intersted in looking at for him. I really beat it up and tried to see just what it could take and found that the frame and build of the knife is actually incredibly strong. I was splitting wood with it and hammering the blade through when it would get stuck using a log as a baton, twisting the body and really tweaking on the blade and pivot as well as the lock. I really expected the blade to break at times but it didn't. It took it all and is still a frequently carried knife. The lock is really very strong on these hardened 410 stainless knives by Kershaw and they certainly wear better than any titanium ones I've personally used this way. The worst thing that happened to it was that the spine got a bit marred up from the batoning but one quick zip with the bead blaster and you could not even tell I'd ever hit it once.
I later sent this same knife to Thom Brogan who ran it through some of his own trials and then reprofiled the edge down to a thinner overall geometry. This is an experimental model that was hardened to Rockwell 64.5 that we were trying to learn more on. As it turns out regardless of whether Kershaw will or will not use anymore at this hardness the edge keeping on this particular model moved it up to super status with me and I really enjoy using it. Much of that is thanks to Thom's new thinner profile but its also due to the fact that the darn thing just keeps cutting for great lengths of time. I fear there are other inherant problems with the steel though at this hardness which will ultimately make it unsuitable for the mass production but the good news is the blades at 60RC exhibit much the same performance and edge keeping ability.
STR
The longer blade models were easier to use for this to me over the smaller JYD which took more effort to get through a cut. The Groove seemed to me to require a bit more effort and did seem to drag a bit in the thicker boxes though, but hardly enough to make note of really. As I said they all do the job. Stabbing even the wider more obtuse blade models was no problem due to the very good grips all of these models have. The locks are so stout and so trustworthy on all these that I felt hard stabbing with confidence was a given with any of them, particularly the frame locking ones.
I mentioned in another thread already about another but will make mention of it here. In a separate test I ran some cutting trials with just the Storm II (a different one than the one used above) that Thomas asked me if I'd be intersted in looking at for him. I really beat it up and tried to see just what it could take and found that the frame and build of the knife is actually incredibly strong. I was splitting wood with it and hammering the blade through when it would get stuck using a log as a baton, twisting the body and really tweaking on the blade and pivot as well as the lock. I really expected the blade to break at times but it didn't. It took it all and is still a frequently carried knife. The lock is really very strong on these hardened 410 stainless knives by Kershaw and they certainly wear better than any titanium ones I've personally used this way. The worst thing that happened to it was that the spine got a bit marred up from the batoning but one quick zip with the bead blaster and you could not even tell I'd ever hit it once.
I later sent this same knife to Thom Brogan who ran it through some of his own trials and then reprofiled the edge down to a thinner overall geometry. This is an experimental model that was hardened to Rockwell 64.5 that we were trying to learn more on. As it turns out regardless of whether Kershaw will or will not use anymore at this hardness the edge keeping on this particular model moved it up to super status with me and I really enjoy using it. Much of that is thanks to Thom's new thinner profile but its also due to the fact that the darn thing just keeps cutting for great lengths of time. I fear there are other inherant problems with the steel though at this hardness which will ultimately make it unsuitable for the mass production but the good news is the blades at 60RC exhibit much the same performance and edge keeping ability.
STR
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13C26, even at RC57 and RC61, is no slouch. While I'm all cuckoo for ZDP-189 and SG-2, I'd take 13C26 hardened to RC61 over S30V at a similar hardness in a New York minute. And faster at RC64.5 if it wasn't on a recurve.
Thanks for your review of the Groove, STR. Have you replaced its factory edge with an EdgePro edge? If so, how's it work now? I've found some out-of-box cutters which didn't initially wow me become instant favorites once the initial buffered-beltmarks are removed. And some with already-amazing factory edges just got more exciting.
Thanks for your review of the Groove, STR. Have you replaced its factory edge with an EdgePro edge? If so, how's it work now? I've found some out-of-box cutters which didn't initially wow me become instant favorites once the initial buffered-beltmarks are removed. And some with already-amazing factory edges just got more exciting.
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Oh yeah, finally I did reprofile it after like the sixth person used it. Had a bit of a burr form on it with the 120 grit stone for a bit but it was not really too hard to get rid of for me. Its up there now, and in fact riding in my pocket as I type. I thought I mentioned that above but will have to see if not and edit that in if need be.
STR
STR
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Nice review(s), some very useful information there. A few questions:
How thick is the liner lock on the JYD2?
How are the JYD, JYD2 and Groove models for inertial opening (i.e. wrist flick, or pop) without touching the flipper? Can it be done, or is there too much closed resistance?
Do the grooves on the Groove serve a specific purpose, perhaps less binding in some materials?
That's good to hear, Thom. It's my very favorable experience with 12C27 and 12C27M that whets my interest in 13C26 (well .... that, and being no big fan of S30V and the uber-carbide tactical stainless steels in general.) Did you get a chance to play around with the 64(+/-) hardness 13C26 blade that's out there, as comparison?
How thick is the liner lock on the JYD2?
How are the JYD, JYD2 and Groove models for inertial opening (i.e. wrist flick, or pop) without touching the flipper? Can it be done, or is there too much closed resistance?
Do the grooves on the Groove serve a specific purpose, perhaps less binding in some materials?
That's good to hear, Thom. It's my very favorable experience with 12C27 and 12C27M that whets my interest in 13C26 (well .... that, and being no big fan of S30V and the uber-carbide tactical stainless steels in general.) Did you get a chance to play around with the 64(+/-) hardness 13C26 blade that's out there, as comparison?
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The liner on the JYD measures .070" on my digital caliper. As I noted after installing the thumb stud on my own JYD frame lock getting the blade started when closed is quite hard on the thumb. This surprised me because up until that time I did not realize just how strongly the detent balls were holding on these models. Its much easier to flip open than to use the thumb stud. In fact it has changed my mind personally about adding a stud to any of my others that are studless. The detent ball could be adjusted and I will do that for others if they ask me to but I'm not going there with my own.
Flicking any of them open without the use of the flipper is quite hard. You really have to physically start it with your finger on the flipper. They are not gravity knives so it looks like Kershaw did their homework on the detent ball setting.
On the grooves. I really can't say that the grooves are responsible for the binding with 100% certainty. Do they cause some binding in some materials? I would say they may yes on some materials where the blade is being binded tightly, because after all, they are wavey dips in and out of the blade that have higher and lower points that could in effect bind more in tight card, wood or leather cutting. I would suggest using your thumb and pushing down on a smooth ungrooved blade while at the same time sliding your thumb forward. Now do the same on the grooved blade. There is resistance to sliding just as there is when someone cuts traction grooves on the spine of a blade to give some grippy texture to your thumb when pushing or pulling the blade. Granted it is not much, but its there.
R.J. Martin says the grooves do not cause any undue binding and he may be right depending on your definition of 'undue.' After using it a lot I kind of think that the grooves are probably guilty of some bind but not enough to warrant any real problem for most cutting jobs. I admit it occurred to me during the card cutting and the first run of hemp cutting that the grooves may be the friction and resistance problem I was experiencing that caused me to put on my gloves to continue. However, it turned out to be more the factory obtuse edge and the 20 or 21 degree bevel angle when cutting the hemp rope more than anything to do with the grooves. Once I put a 15 degree angle on it and went back it was night and day different from the first run. I have not cut cardboard again with it since resharpening it to the new angle.
I think at this point the grooves main purpose is nothing more or less than to add to the 'wow' effect because that is almost always the first words out of someones mouth when they see it for the first time.
STR.
Flicking any of them open without the use of the flipper is quite hard. You really have to physically start it with your finger on the flipper. They are not gravity knives so it looks like Kershaw did their homework on the detent ball setting.
On the grooves. I really can't say that the grooves are responsible for the binding with 100% certainty. Do they cause some binding in some materials? I would say they may yes on some materials where the blade is being binded tightly, because after all, they are wavey dips in and out of the blade that have higher and lower points that could in effect bind more in tight card, wood or leather cutting. I would suggest using your thumb and pushing down on a smooth ungrooved blade while at the same time sliding your thumb forward. Now do the same on the grooved blade. There is resistance to sliding just as there is when someone cuts traction grooves on the spine of a blade to give some grippy texture to your thumb when pushing or pulling the blade. Granted it is not much, but its there.
R.J. Martin says the grooves do not cause any undue binding and he may be right depending on your definition of 'undue.' After using it a lot I kind of think that the grooves are probably guilty of some bind but not enough to warrant any real problem for most cutting jobs. I admit it occurred to me during the card cutting and the first run of hemp cutting that the grooves may be the friction and resistance problem I was experiencing that caused me to put on my gloves to continue. However, it turned out to be more the factory obtuse edge and the 20 or 21 degree bevel angle when cutting the hemp rope more than anything to do with the grooves. Once I put a 15 degree angle on it and went back it was night and day different from the first run. I have not cut cardboard again with it since resharpening it to the new angle.
I think at this point the grooves main purpose is nothing more or less than to add to the 'wow' effect because that is almost always the first words out of someones mouth when they see it for the first time.
STR.
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Thanks for the tip Steve. :thumbup:
I went out the hardware store and got some 100 grit paper, sanded that last nub on the end of the scale down pretty much flush and almost got it. I had to bevel the corner on the top of the scale to get that last needed bit of clearance for the clip to sit flat on the frame. Now that it's tip up, I find I like it better because the clip position is more comfortable on my middle finger when I position the knife to flip it open.
I went out the hardware store and got some 100 grit paper, sanded that last nub on the end of the scale down pretty much flush and almost got it. I had to bevel the corner on the top of the scale to get that last needed bit of clearance for the clip to sit flat on the frame. Now that it's tip up, I find I like it better because the clip position is more comfortable on my middle finger when I position the knife to flip it open.
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Thanks, STR. From what I'd read about these knives I figured inertial opening might be tough. However in concept I still like this design/approach as I understand it better than than assisted-open designs I'm familiar with.
.070" liner lock sounds decent. If not mistaken strength of a part like this should be roughly proportional to the square of the thickness, so that's nearly twice the strength of a ~.050" liner lock like you see on many knives.
Interesting with the thumbstud experiment. One of my first thoughts when I saw these knives was that that might be a possibility, but just like you see with some factory knives, just because there's a thumbstud, or even a thumb hole, doesn't mean it'll be easy to open (Benchmade, are you listening?)
Re: binding with Groove ... I wouldn't think the grooves would cause much of a problem, was actually asking if you found anything where they resulted in less binding - maybe something in the kitchen, like cheese. Not much into these "wow" features myself, but can't blame a manufacturer for wanting to catch the buyer's eye.
Reading your comments about the JYD models, I'm wondering if a bit of jimping on the flipper might improve the opening? Just a thought....
Oh, yeah, one last thing: I've seen a couple people really panning the pocket clips on the JYD models, to me they look like they might actually improve purchase when opening with the flipper. Any thoughts there?
Thanks again for your efforts.
.070" liner lock sounds decent. If not mistaken strength of a part like this should be roughly proportional to the square of the thickness, so that's nearly twice the strength of a ~.050" liner lock like you see on many knives.
Interesting with the thumbstud experiment. One of my first thoughts when I saw these knives was that that might be a possibility, but just like you see with some factory knives, just because there's a thumbstud, or even a thumb hole, doesn't mean it'll be easy to open (Benchmade, are you listening?)
Re: binding with Groove ... I wouldn't think the grooves would cause much of a problem, was actually asking if you found anything where they resulted in less binding - maybe something in the kitchen, like cheese. Not much into these "wow" features myself, but can't blame a manufacturer for wanting to catch the buyer's eye.
Reading your comments about the JYD models, I'm wondering if a bit of jimping on the flipper might improve the opening? Just a thought....
Oh, yeah, one last thing: I've seen a couple people really panning the pocket clips on the JYD models, to me they look like they might actually improve purchase when opening with the flipper. Any thoughts there?
Thanks again for your efforts.
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Yes, I did (don't tell db!). Maybe because they were thinner to start or maybe because I screwed up the edge when sharpening the RC64.5 Storm II, but I liked the Sandvik at regular hardness better. The softest of Steve's Storms was the sharpest. The second sharpest, somewhere in the RC59-61 ball-park and hollow-ground (ooh yeah!), got its serrations bent on some unidentified hardwood. The third sharpest, also in that RC hardness ballpark, was slightly thicker, but completely bulletproof.
This thread should belong to RJ's Kershaw Groove, but the steel and heat-treat of 13C26 pumped out of Tualatin, OR deserves to be a good thread-hijack topic. It can be used in ultra-hard, ultra-thin blades which try to emulate knapped obsidian and it can be used to make no-fuss EDC blades and uber-tacticool stainless blades and do well for all three.
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Thom brings up a good point about the super hard blade I have. I can't say it has ever gotten a super sharp edge on it like the bite I can get on the softer ones. However it tenaciously hangs on to the edge it does take and stays pretty much the same for a very long time.
As far as the Groove goes. I'd say if you get it and notice its causing some discomfort in the hand with certain cuts that a reprofile of the edge will just about cure all your ills based on my experience. Although I have noticed this trait of biting into the hand can be par for the course with all metal folders since they are usually thinner and don't have the width for a flatter thumb and hand purchase like a thick liner, G10 scaled one such as the JYDII does during really heavy cutting jobs. Regardless, the Groove is a great knife and since bringing this edge to life beyond what came on it from Kershaw I must say its starting to really grow on me now and gain some attention it did not get before the resharpen. And to think I almost went ahead and let it go to one of the guys I let play with it. No way that is happening now I can tell you that. This one is a keeper.
By the way I have a passion for Colby Longhorn cheese and was needing an excuse to eat some of that big block I bought the other day at Aldi's. After reading about your thoughts on cheese sticking to the blade I had to go try it. You know what? Good call. The cheese doesn't stick to it like other blades and just fell off after each slice. :thumbup:
STR
As far as the Groove goes. I'd say if you get it and notice its causing some discomfort in the hand with certain cuts that a reprofile of the edge will just about cure all your ills based on my experience. Although I have noticed this trait of biting into the hand can be par for the course with all metal folders since they are usually thinner and don't have the width for a flatter thumb and hand purchase like a thick liner, G10 scaled one such as the JYDII does during really heavy cutting jobs. Regardless, the Groove is a great knife and since bringing this edge to life beyond what came on it from Kershaw I must say its starting to really grow on me now and gain some attention it did not get before the resharpen. And to think I almost went ahead and let it go to one of the guys I let play with it. No way that is happening now I can tell you that.
This one is a keeper. By the way I have a passion for Colby Longhorn cheese and was needing an excuse to eat some of that big block I bought the other day at Aldi's. After reading about your thoughts on cheese sticking to the blade I had to go try it. You know what? Good call. The cheese doesn't stick to it like other blades and just fell off after each slice. :thumbup:
STR
STR, what type of sharpening system do you use to reprofile with? The only thing I use on my knives is a Spyderco Sharpmaker. I do not know what degree it is set at, and I have the older model that has only one angle. I suspect the Devastator I have from RJ is at an angle akin to what you put on the Groove, and I would like to be able to maintain that angle.
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I have several. The oldest is the Lansky sharpener which is still available, but my favorite and most often used is the Edge Pro which is what I used on my Groove. The settings on the Edge Pro are slightly different than the Sharpmaker. Honestly, I like the Sharpmaker ok but I don't find it my first choice when it comes to a complete reprofile job. The only time I find myself preferring the Sharpmaker is for all serrated blades or combo edge serrations.
The Edge Pro 120 grit stone will recut a new bevel just as fast if I took the knife out to my professional grinder in the shop that I use when I do a custom knife but with the EdgePro its all done with no heat build up. The Edge Pro systems are expensive though. The Apex system is the one I'd go with and what I have. If you use it a lot you will go through the 120 grit stones pretty fast but all the others last a good long while. I'd recommend getting extra 120 grit ones with the purchase, and including their 1200 grit ceramic rod in the kit.
The trick to using a EdgePro is taping off the blade. Many tape off the table but I've been doing like the last hundred or so knives by taping the blade I'm sharpening instead and much prefer doing that to anything else. The slurry mix and debris from the 120 grit stone shedding material so fast will scratch up a new blade right quick without the tape off to protect it from this. If its a user and you don't care then don't worry about it but with a forum members knife or a new one I always use a small piece or tape covering all the side except what I'll be grinding and the spine. The taping off is the longest part of the whole process. Once you get it set at the angle you want the rest is all down hill.
STR
The Edge Pro 120 grit stone will recut a new bevel just as fast if I took the knife out to my professional grinder in the shop that I use when I do a custom knife but with the EdgePro its all done with no heat build up. The Edge Pro systems are expensive though. The Apex system is the one I'd go with and what I have. If you use it a lot you will go through the 120 grit stones pretty fast but all the others last a good long while. I'd recommend getting extra 120 grit ones with the purchase, and including their 1200 grit ceramic rod in the kit.
The trick to using a EdgePro is taping off the blade. Many tape off the table but I've been doing like the last hundred or so knives by taping the blade I'm sharpening instead and much prefer doing that to anything else. The slurry mix and debris from the 120 grit stone shedding material so fast will scratch up a new blade right quick without the tape off to protect it from this. If its a user and you don't care then don't worry about it but with a forum members knife or a new one I always use a small piece or tape covering all the side except what I'll be grinding and the spine. The taping off is the longest part of the whole process. Once you get it set at the angle you want the rest is all down hill.
STR
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2004
- Messages
- 1,670
Cheese is one of my passions too, STR (I think I must have been hungry at the time of that post.) Don't know if this kind of grooving would lend itself to thinner stock like usually found in food prep knives, but I think it might make for some really handsome kitchen cutlery with maybe some practical advantage as well.
Interesting observations on sharpening and performance of 13C26 at different hardness. I usually just assume higher RC blades are easier to sharpen, at least with fine grained steels up to the point where they get too brittle since greater hardness discourages burr formation ... but based on your reputation, Thom, as a Sharpening Grand Master, I'm assuming there's merit to your assessment and preference for the slightly lower RC. Each alloy is a thing onto itself I've learned, and for all I know it could be that the properties that make 13C26 at very high hardness well-suited to the industrial sharpening processes used for making razor blades aren't so favorable for this kind of application. No doubt more testing needed, but IMO this is good to know, and valuable feedback for Kershaw.
Really an interesting thread, apologies for all the questions and if I drifted too much OT. I'm just very interested in seeing more Sandvik steels in use, looking forward to getting my hands on one of these new Kershaws.
Interesting observations on sharpening and performance of 13C26 at different hardness. I usually just assume higher RC blades are easier to sharpen, at least with fine grained steels up to the point where they get too brittle since greater hardness discourages burr formation ... but based on your reputation, Thom, as a Sharpening Grand Master, I'm assuming there's merit to your assessment and preference for the slightly lower RC. Each alloy is a thing onto itself I've learned, and for all I know it could be that the properties that make 13C26 at very high hardness well-suited to the industrial sharpening processes used for making razor blades aren't so favorable for this kind of application. No doubt more testing needed, but IMO this is good to know, and valuable feedback for Kershaw.
Really an interesting thread, apologies for all the questions and if I drifted too much OT. I'm just very interested in seeing more Sandvik steels in use, looking forward to getting my hands on one of these new Kershaws.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2002
- Messages
- 9,948
Truth be told, I'm just an idiot who sneaks into the basement with an EdgePro or some waterstones a little more often than's healthy. Sometimes, a knife gets sharper. Fully hardened M2 and 1095 pose no problems with fine edges, nor do moderately hardened ZDP-189, S30V, VG-10, SGPS, or SG-2.
Pretty sure that 13C26 and AEB-L razor blades are hardened to around RC60 (If I read Verhoeven's study properly, that is, and no one should assume I read or listen in a proper manner), so Kershaw's current hardness range of RC59-61 is well within those specs.
Heck, get a newer old one, too! I've got an External Toggle with a born-on date of Dec/06 (signifying 13C26 at RC59-61) and when I can get away from flipping it open and shut and actually cut stuff, it's an absolute joy. Factory edge was reminiscent of Seki-made Spydercos in terms of initial sharpness and when it finally got replaced with a shiny, pretty bevel, it didn't need any real thinning and it went right on. Get a more non-knife-people friendly and more halvarti-friendly design like the Groove, and you'll be golden as well.