Has anyone bought one of the $75 Surefire M2s off Ebay?

I suggest you do two things:

1) Visit http://186thousand.com - the SureFire Discussion Board.

2) Visit http://www.PK-Engineering.com - the website of Paul Kim, SureFire's New Products Development Manager.

Is Digital Regulation worth the wait?
Yes - Once you've seen it, you'll find it difficult to go back.

Is it worth getting an M2 now?
Yes. The M2 with it's Shock Isolated Bezel, P61 High Output Lamp Assembly - The M2 is specifically designed to be practically waterproof (with an extra o-ring on the TailCap end too)

Will I be able to convert my M2 to use a Digitally Regulated Luxeon Bezel?
Yes - the KL3.

That I know of, the only fusion of bulb and LEDs from SureFire will be their soon to be released A2.

I hope this helps.

Al
 
Al, thanks. I spent a fair amount of time over at 186k last night, but it's sometimes hard to figure out all the nuances. I think I'll go for an M2 now, and hope the Luxeon bezel isn't too expensive. Too bad the existing bezels can't be retrofitted.
 
I was unsuccessful in a few of these auctions. If anyone gets their M2 and just doesn't like it, drop me a line.
I don't need the M2 but I can't pass on a bargain.
Maybe the guy will auction some more of these.
G.:(
 
Hmmm... Uh... I was under the impression that the digital regulation pertained to the traditional lamps (not LED) to extend lifespan, and provide adequate early warning of immenent discharge, by a lower output level, as the battery neared exhaustion.

Oh... by the way, please don't ask me where I read that, or how I came away with that impression... my head is swimming. :D
 
SureFire's Digital Regulation allows the output to have two significant characteristics:

1) Constant output throughout the runtime of the batteries.

2) Higher output compared to unregulated.

The majority of SureFire's Digital Regulation will power Luxeons.

Currently, SureFire have only released plans to produce one digitally regulated incandescent bulb model - the A2.

Digital Regulation means the bulb is more stable, the colour temperature of the light output is far higher producing a whiter beam. This would suggest that bulb-life would be increased as it is subjected to far less stress.

As the regulation is digitally controlled, the output can be altered to give the user an indication that the batteries need changing.

With the A2, this means that the output will switch from the bulb to the three LEDs.
With the Luxeon Conversion Bezels, this means that the output will change to a low level.

Because these characteristics are 'software', SureFire are in the process of deciding just how these things will work. I am sure that the final characteristics will be released when they are happy.

Al
 
Al, sorry to be such a PITA, but I'm still a bit confused. There are so many rumors, model numbers, and combinations being bantered about, it's hard to get it all sorted. This is all new to me. It was just three days ago that I thought a MagLite was the best-of-breed. :rolleyes:

I'm still not clear on a few things:

1) Will this new digital regulation apply to the current P60/61 bulbs, or is it LED-only? If so, will there be a retro kit to apply the electronics to the existing P60/61 lamps? IOW, is the KL-series the Luxeon, or digitally regulated HID?

2) This is a 'loaded queston', but I have to ask it anyway. Since you've obviously got more than a good handle on where SF is going, if you were me, and it were your decision, what would your purchase be, knowing what you know of the new releases on the horizon?

As I see it, there's a part of me that thinks it won't make sense to spend a premium for an M2 Millenium, only to toss the bezel when the new one is released. Could I not accomplish the same thing with a C2? Am I missing anything in terms of accessory choices by going the 'economy' route?

I'm kind of predisposed to the 2-cell platform as the 'best bang for the volt' (per my earlier post), but will defer to your recommendation, in light of the impending releases.
 
Al, sorry to be such a PITA, but I'm still a bit confused.
That's normal.
There are so many rumors, model numbers, and combinations being bantered about, it's hard to get it all sorted.
That's normal too.
This is all new to me. It was just three days ago that I thought a MagLite was the best-of-breed.
Wow!

I'm still not clear on a few things:
42. Sorry? What was the question? :p

1) Will this new digital regulation apply to the current P60/61 bulbs, or is it LED-only? If so, will there be a retro kit to apply the electronics to the existing P60/61 lamps? IOW, is the KL-series the Luxeon, or digitally regulated HID?
The KLx Series of Bezels are designed to screw on to SureFire bodies replacing the bezel and lamp Assembly.
Currently, SureFire have three KL Bezels to release:
KL1 - Luxeon (LED) for the E Series bodies.
KL2 - 19 LED (5 mm White) for the M3 body.
KL3 - Luxeon (LED) for the standard two & three SF123 (& B65 NiCad) bodies.

The only digitally regulated bulb SureFire is a whole new model (no retrofit, no conversion, no interchangeability). The A2 has a digitally regulated bulb and three 5 mm LEDs in the same reflector. User can select LEDs or bulb depending the level of pressure you put on the TailCap switch.

There are no SureFire HID products due for release anytime soon.

2) This is a 'loaded queston', but I have to ask it anyway. Since you've obviously got more than a good handle on where SF is going, if you were me, and it were your decision, what would your purchase be, knowing what you know of the new releases on the horizon?
If I were you, I would get an M2. Then I would get a KL3 Luxeon Bezel for it when it is released. I would also wait for the A2 rather then getting an E2e now and a KL1 when it is released.

As I see it, there's a part of me that thinks it won't make sense to spend a premium for an M2 Millenium, only to toss the bezel when the new one is released. Could I not accomplish the same thing with a C2? Am I missing anything in terms of accessory choices by going the 'economy' route?
The M2 will not be a waste. The KL3 will not outshine the amazing P61 High Output Lamp Assembly (HOLA) Luxeon beams are not yet advanced enough to have a beam like, or better then the P61.

I'm kind of predisposed to the 2-cell platform as the 'best bang for the volt' (per my earlier post), but will defer to your recommendation, in light of the impending releases.
Like I say, the M2 what I suggest. It can be carried (due to it's PocketClip) whereas the M3 is more difficult to carry without a pouch.

Thinking long-term, I predict that SureFire will release more powerful Luxeons with concentrated beams. These will most likely require three SF123As. Therefore the M3 may be a good investment, but it may not be worth your while if you're not going to use it until SureFire release products that perhaps are only shown at the Shot Show 2003, and released months after...

When you invest in SureFires, if you don't use them, you may as well get a framed photo of one for your wall. Regardless of whatever is in the pipe, SureFires are designed to be used.

Respectfully

Al
 
Al, thanks so much. I think it's all coming together now.

Is there anywhere I can look to find a comparison of the output between the new Luxeons and the standard lamps? IOW, I'm after a comparison (in lumens, if possible) that compares the P60 to the KL3 and the KL1 to the MN1. Also, where can I find photos and information about the upcoming A2? If I determine that it's worth waiting for, I might get myself an E1E to tide me over.

I appreciate all your patience!
 
I got a UPS ship notice the other day. I'll post a review if/when I actually get the goods.

BTW I paid $89 plush $8.50 shipping or $97 total. Not the best deal in the world, but it's $22.50 less than the best retail deal I could find (Texas Tactical Supply) and will be worth the risk if I get the goods in the advertised "new in sealed box" condition.
 
Photos of SureFire's new products up for release soon can be found here
The products I refer to are the KL1, KL2, KL3 and A2.

This is one of the most up to date photos I've seen of the A2:
(marked #2)

Al
 
Al, thanks again - you're the best! I've been to PK's site, and felt like a kid with his first copy of Playboy. :D

Still hoping for metrics on lumen comparisons between the Luxeon implementations, and how they rate next to the current P60/61 Xenons. I realize it's too early in the game to say with absolute certainty how any given product will perform in the real word, but surely they have some intended design specs they're shooting for, no?
 
I do not have up-to-date info on what the KL1 & KL2 output/runtime ratings are. I do not know how beamish, if at all the SureFire Luxeons are. I do know they are brighter then the Arc LS. I do know they produce a whiter light then standard bulbs.

The KL1 is going to be the main interest for many people. I expect that many people have the E Series flashlight and the KL1 will be a way of getting better quality light for longer out of it. The nature of the E Series is that the standard bulbs don't throw as far as larger models like the M2 and G2 (P60/P61 Lamps). Reflector diameter has much to do with this.

This gen of Luxeons will not have a narrow beam similar to the P60 bulb, so the KLx will be ideal for close range illumination. Perhaps the KL1 will output like the MN02 with BeamShaper?

I'm sure we will find out soon.

I'm sorry I can't be of more help at this stage.

Al
 
Al, you've been more than helpful. Your description about the anticipated relative benefits of the KL1 vs. the KL3 make perfect sense. The KL1, in particular, seems to be ideal in terms of greater output of light than the MN01 bulb, for a longer runtime. Given that the KL2 is for the 3 cell, it's not on my radar. I think my plan is to get BOTH the E1e and the M2, and see what the KL retrofits bring.

Regards,
RK
 
When I got home from work last night there was a package in my mailbox. It contained a sealed box with a Surefire M2 inside :cool:

I didn't do as well as the winners of some of the other auctions, but I'm not losing any sleep over it. I didn't have time to babysit the many M2 auctions, so I just put down a bid I could live with--$100 to my door--and left it at that. I ended up paying $89 plus $8.50 shipping for a total of $97.50.

Wow--what a light. The reflection off some surfaces is brighter than my 2D Maglite with a Willie Hunt 8AA conversion stick.
 
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