Has anyone noticed?

UffDa

Gold Member
Joined
Sep 11, 1999
Messages
42,596
Has anyone noticed the significant decrease in postings on the "For Sale" forums? In spite of all the "we'll support you" comments this was very predictable. Most people will not pay in advance to post something for sale. I believe that most people would be willing to pay a fee after the sale, but even then, I see them trying to get out of it. I guess it's just human nature.

Every forum that I know of that has decided to charge in advance to post something for sale has had the same problem.
 
Joined
Sep 25, 2000
Messages
535
Well some of the fees especially for dealers are pretty hefty. Right after photopoint got their money out of people they went under and now its up to the good people to try and get their money back. Not implying that is going to happen here, but it does happen. Buyer beware. Also its not worth it to buy and sell a couple knives a year, on which your making very little. I have a very basic aversion to paying for anything on the internet. Be it right or wrong. But then again its expensive to keep operations like bladeforums up and running. The money has to come from somewhere. I think the compromise reached here is fair.
 

not2sharp

Platinum Member
Joined
Jun 29, 1999
Messages
19,351
For one or two knives a year I agree, although I kicked in, and I have yet to sell a knife. But, some of the guys that have disappeared were posting 10 to 20 knives a month. Remember the BTTT crowd?

Then again it may be too soon to tell. The recent problem with Photopoint has probably left alot of people scrambling to clean up the mess. They may come back after they have had a chance to set up a new hosting site for their photos.

SPARK,

Is there any way to use the Bladeforums Resouces to host personal PW protected albums for our members? Perhaps we can offer a personal forum as a premium service. The bandwidth consumption with a link would be less than if import pictures on each tread. Who know's maybe we can call it a Virtual Den, and allow private discussions, with authorized guests to take place.

N2S
 
Joined
Oct 1, 1999
Messages
6,490
You're right it was predictable. Like the old saying, "Money talks and BS walks." You've just seen the BS walking. It's only normal that people who have been getting a gift for so long would resent any fee. I have never sold a knife here and have no intentions of starting now. I kicked in the $30 because, I could and I wanted to say thanks to BFC for all that I've gotten out of it since I got here, and it was the least I could do.

I predict you're going to see a lot of dealers that are going to try everything they can think of to keep selling and here and not pay the frieght until they get called on it several times. Then after months of this they'll bitch and moan again how unfair this is. These will be the same people that take great pride in their reputation on how honest they are to deal with. :rolleyes:

I don't know how much my $30 will help to keep BFC open?
I do know I owe BFC a debt I can never repay. For what I've learned here and the friends I've made all I can say is "Thanks."
 
Joined
Dec 23, 2000
Messages
525
big time diff.! I plan on going Gold, but it looks like many have left.If it was not for BF, I would not have experienced many of the cool blades that I have.Loyalty.
 
Joined
Jan 25, 2000
Messages
4,490
Yeah, sure doesn't take long to cruise thru the knives listed :rolleyes: . With all of the money I will be saving not buying second-hand knives, it will surely allow me to pay Spark :D Seriously though, I do plan on supporting the site eventually. I hope more people are just holding off as well. I would really hate to see the number of knives for sale go down, there were good deals to be had and alot of interesting pieces passed thru there as well.
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2001
Messages
1,742
All the BTTTers have gone over to KF, which is fine with me. I personally no longer visit KF. I had a run in with the owner. He said that since I was a custom maker I was using his forums for advertising my business and should pay for a banner ad. I told him to shove it and won't go back. Plus my post were being whipped of in 10 to 15min by all the BTTTers.

I am in the process of going GOLD. but just don't have any to offer right now.

Hang in there, it will get better.
<A HREF="http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4292475489"><IMG SRC="http://www.imagestation.com/images/album/link/my_album_button.gif" BORDER="0"></A>
 
Joined
Feb 17, 2000
Messages
273
Well...we will have to wait and see...

I was very much in favor of a small fee to post in the for-sale forums. I think originally I had posted an idea of $10...and then perhaps $20. I think Spark crossed over the price/value relationship border with the $30 fee...not to mention the dealer fee. I still believe that at $10 or $20 he would have generated more revenue.

More upsetting than the fee, however, was Spark's attitude. His decided lack of empathy and take-it-or-leave it attitude left a bad taste in my mouth...and I'm sure in many others. At the same time, I feel for him in his quest for survival. I'm also sure he's had many problems with pseudo-dealers...but...throwing the baby out with the bathwater is not too smart...

It's really too bad that Spark couldn't have been a little kinder in his comments...and charged a bit less. This isn't going to be good for anybody. We are on the slippery slope down, I'm afraid. I've even noticed a slight drop-off in other postings (or am I imagining this???). I'd love to support the forums...but I'm just too irritated at present.

I guess I'll just wait for Spark's terse and obligatory "It's only $2.50 a month" comment. The bloom is certainly off the rose...
 

not2sharp

Platinum Member
Joined
Jun 29, 1999
Messages
19,351
Lynn,

No comment on the fee amount; the only thing anyone can do is try a number to see how it works out. But, I not the guy getting the bills for this site, so we will have to wait and see if we reach our revenue targets. As long as the guys don't pull another Photopoint I'll be happy.

N2S
 
Joined
Mar 8, 2001
Messages
614
How many magazine subscriptions out there give as much as BF does? Where else can we get in one forum the latest knife news & information on the newest knife finished/available? It cost money to run this forum. There is no reason for regular visitors not to pay the $20 yearly minimum & having the ability to post pix makes it worth the price.
 
Joined
Feb 17, 2000
Messages
273
not2sharp,

Yeah...I know...it's a crap shoot with the whole fee thing. Better to start too high than to have to increase it in a few months...that would be worse.

I feel like scum...but I'm probably gonna take a wait and see attitude. If enought people pay...then I probably will too. But, with the drop-off in postings...PhotoPoint's antics...my perception re: the testy nature of management's comments (admitedly, my perception)...I'm gonna wait...

Ultimately, the only way this works is if there are not substitutes available (which there are) or if the fee is so nominal relative to the perceived benefit that it's not worth switching sites.

An uphill battle at $30 I'm afraid...

Oh, and as to the bills...no customer ever cares what a business's costs are. A consumer always asks is the benefit worth the price. It is the producer's job to keep costs at such a level that the benefit can be provided at the customers price point. Or...as I once read in a Dilbert cartoon..."What consumers want is better products for free." I'm sympathetic...but the prices were a slap in the face to me (relative to other web charges). I'm not saying it's not worth $30...I'm saying that the differentiation from competitors does not justify that charge...much less the charge to dealers...whatever Spark's costs...
 

UffDa

Gold Member
Joined
Sep 11, 1999
Messages
42,596
Remember the on-line knife magazine? I paid my $30 (29.95?) I think we got one issue. We were offered our money back and made to feel like jerks if we actually asked for it.:eek: (Sorry about that) That may not have been the intention, but it's the way it came over.

Auction Arms charges $3 a year plus 2% of the selling price. I would go for that. eBay doesn't charge anything unless the item sells. GunsAmerica has an honor system. No charge for posting and a fee if the item sells. They seem to do OK.

You are right, the BTTTs went elsewhere, but so did most of the good guys.
 

not2sharp

Platinum Member
Joined
Jun 29, 1999
Messages
19,351
Look at the bright side. The odds of winning the monthy giveaway increases proportionally with the loss in population. :)

Stay sharp.

N2S
 
Joined
Sep 23, 1999
Messages
3,831
I am still wiping the tears from my eyes after Phil's post! Seriously though, Bladeforums is the largest of the knife sites, you get VERY current information, you can talk to many factory reps, you get great pics that you never see in magazines, we've had special runs from Camillus due to bladeforums demands, we make a lot of friends here, etc. And so far it has been free! Well, free TO US! Mike has said that he spent $60 000 of his money to keep things going. Someone has been payign the bills around here. Bladeforums is better than any magazine, but people have no problem sending BLADE $30 a year. At the moment I am a poor, but not starving university student. I have $20 to my name, and that is in CANADIAN funds! WAY short of the $20 or $30 US asked for for a special membership. Once I cana fford it, I'll be sending Spark a money order myself. Now this sounds like BS, but I will do it.

Bladeforums members, I urge you to take a look at how many good things you get here, and THEN decide whether you think $20 a year is a rip off. I suspect the drop in people sellign was from those who thought they were having somethign taken away from them. Well, they should have looked at it as a GIFT. Mike and Spark have managed to keep this place free up to now. That is a great feat. I will bet that Knifeforums will one day have to charge as well. For all of you knfieforums members here, someone should ask the owner how they pay their bills. That would be interesting to know.
 
Joined
Mar 26, 2000
Messages
658
I am a part time small production maker about 35 knive a year. I paid the $30.00 which in fact will cost me $45.00 because I am Canadian. I have never repeat never sold a knife on the BF for sale posts. I have tried but no luck.
However I have sold knives to BF members, because, I think of picture posts of works I have compleated, most of which were already sold. I like to show off my work and see the work of other makers. Will it be worth it I don't know but all I know is that BF has a lot of viewers that see my knives thru pictures and the rate of a table at a sports or knife show will usually be more than the $45.00 that this membership cost me.
Only time will tell and good luck to BF and all its viewers whatever there membership status.
 
Joined
Dec 25, 2000
Messages
868
I've never bought a blade from the for sale forums, but I did use the for sale forums quite often as a market indicator.
I don't need BF to host my images; I host my own.

I coughed up the $30 because it's a small price to pay for the friendships I've made here, and for all of the knowledge I've obtained here. How much is a subscription to a knife magazine or two? Knife mags bombard you with adds and also their advertiser influenced opinions. Does BF? No.

I trust the friendships and opinions of my fellow forumites. That's worth alot to me. Alot more than $30.

Thanks Spark. For everything. I'll remain a Gold member for as long as BF is around.
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2001
Messages
2,726
I'm just a regular BF user. I've sold a few knives here, although not quite as many as I've bought. At this point I am literally too broke to afford the $30, but I expect to pay it within the next month or so. That seems to me like a reasonable fee for a year's access to these forums.

--Bob Q
 
Joined
Jul 14, 2000
Messages
3,278
i am,just a little broke right now ;)

i noticed it too. i also expected it. people got scared and jumped ship.

shit happens.
everyone say by to the shit.
<shrugs>
-mo
 
Joined
Mar 27, 2001
Messages
1,276
I have not been here that long but I have had a chance to meet some really good people and learn alot.I have never sold a knife on the forums but I have bought a few.I paid the $30.00 because I thought it was worth it to me.This site has so much to offer I wanted to help where I could.This place suites me just fine.

Stan
 
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