Has anyone used the Selectool master sharpener?

[jrneumiller]

Any advice on how to get that kind of photograph with standard digicams?

 

[jrneumiller]

No matter how you say it this is still a carbide scraper and will chew up an edge leaving it in a sad state of disrepair. You can see in your very own video the large shaving of metal being stripped from the blade.

As professional sharpener I have seen dozens of gun show draw through sharpeners that are "the best sharpener ever made". Not much different here except the tool in now being defended by its owner.

I'm sure it works, most pull through sharpeners do. It's what they do over time that is really sad.

If a knife edge is dull, blade-steel must be removed in order to accomplish a new edge. That is an undeniable fact of knife sharpening. The question is not "how should it be removed?," as much as, "how should it be removed accurately?"

After all, MOST people butcher their knife edges using the vaunted whetstone - which provides no help in maintaining correct angles - and leaves as rough and "un-smooth" a bevel as any I've seen. (Which condition is well known.)

If used correctly, (as I demonstrate and explain hundreds of times every week,) the Selectool produces a superior edge on par with the best hand sharpened knives anywhere. The entire issue of keeping the blade angled at the precise degree is totally solved with this sharpener. There is a small learning curve, but nothing that cannot be obtained with about a minutes worth of correct practice.

There are no perfect sharpeners - only people who have various degrees of success using one or the another. I have found inordinate success with the Selectool, and until you personally try one, you honestly have very little idea other than what you think you understand from other "V" sharpeners you have seen, (the difference of which I have have tried to adequately explain.)

For those who have seen and understand, the success rate is very satisfying.

 

[jrneumiller]

If it can be disassembled and the carbide cutters trued from time to time (and to start), one can get OK results with these, especially on lower RC steel. If they haven't had any TLC from the factory, you can count on the edge being undercut or otherwise chewed up. Is also very difficult to cleanly remove the burr, but maybe with practice...

For the unskilled, it would be a big improvement over a grooved butcher's steel.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ographs)?highlight=dollar+carbide+scraper+you

Everyone has his own standards for what he considers to be a sharp edge. Those who actually compete in such contests can produce an edge so thin and smooth, it is on par with a single layer of obsidian. Such an edge is VASTLY beyond the ability of virtually every person on the planet, (not that it cannot be mastered with enough time and patience; but there's my point.)

My personal needs are far less demanding, and what you might consider an "ok" edge might cause me to turn cartwheels in joy. (The same goes for the vast majority of all knife users.)

The Selectool, by itself, produces a very effective and accurate "working" or "utility" edge. It is not perfect and I don't claim it to be. It can be made perfect with a few more strokes on a ceramic rod, but that is a finishing step I emphasize is not essential. It's nice, and I recommend, advocate, and offer one to my customers, but not essential.

(Neither is the Holy Grail "shaving edge" that so many people exalt, but which is notoriously impractical for most everyday cutting tasks. I liken it to a toy that's nice to have and play with for awhile, but is mostly useless for everyday needs. You can't use it to cut the plastic tag off a pair of socks because it's too smooth, and is completely removed when opening that first box.) Your mileage may decidedly vary on that, but it is the experience of the vast majority.

The sharpening inserts, (which BTW use a cutting technology identical to the machine lathe in a metal shop,) are hardened to a 64-67RC, making them sufficiently harder than virtually any blade out there. I sharpen Benchmades and Buck knives reliably every week, and find there is very little they won't cut into.

Interestingly, the edge that is extremely difficult to sharpen is one that has become "glazed" - having a lumpy bevel that is very smooth and polished. This type of edge resists every kind of sharpener, and the only way I can overcome this is to place a kitchen steel against my table and refurbish that bevel with very firm and insistent strokes until all that glazed roughness is gone. This technique produces a very clean and restored edge that is very pleasant to view and use.

I invite you to try one and see for yourself.

 

[Jason B.]

Nice sales pitch but I've heard it before.

Please realize that you are in a relm of sharpening enthusiasts that can poke holes in most of what you said.

 

[jrneumiller]

Nice sales pitch but I've heard it before.

Please realize that you are in a relm of sharpening enthusiasts that can poke holes in most of what you said.

And what value is that except to establish the existence of some peck-sniffs who enjoy doing just that?

If you actually purchase a tool, give it a fair shot, see for yourself whether it works as well as I say, and then offer criticism, that's one thing.

But to "poke holes" in something you only think you understand . . . that's something else entirely, isn't it?

But you go ahead and be as critical as you want. I'm not bragging when I say I understand this tool better than any person alive, and am able to articulate it's benefits, (of which there are many,) as well as it's failings, (of which there are precious few.) I will respond as succinctly as I can, and perhaps bring a bit of clarity to this forum. (So even the most proficient enthusiast can get an excellent edge on the dullest knife, in about a minute.)

 

[Jason B.]

So now your insulting us? Peck-sniffs?

I understand more about sharpening than you will ever learn and have used more stones, guides, and sharpeners like yours than you can shake a stick at. I find your statements to be misleading and damaging to the sharpening community all in the name of making a sale.

You should read some of the links in my sig line and the stickies at the top of this subforum to educate yourself on the facts of sharpening.

 

[singularity35]

Any advice on how to get that kind of photograph with standard digicams?

Here's a cheap one that will probably suffice.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Handheld-US...712?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2343f5fc30

 

[HeavyHanded]

And what value is that except to establish the existence of some peck-sniffs who enjoy doing just that?

If you actually purchase a tool, give it a fair shot, see for yourself whether it works as well as I say, and then offer criticism, that's one thing.

But to "poke holes" in something you only think you understand . . . that's something else entirely, isn't it?

But you go ahead and be as critical as you want. I'm not bragging when I say I understand this tool better than any person alive, and am able to articulate it's benefits, (of which there are many,) as well as it's failings, (of which there are precious few.) I will respond as succinctly as I can, and perhaps bring a bit of clarity to this forum. (So even the most proficient enthusiast can get an excellent edge on the dullest knife, in about a minute.)

"Peck-sniff"?

Can we get a Mod to put this thread out of its misery...

 

[jrneumiller]

So now your insulting us? Peck-sniffs?

I understand more about sharpening than you will ever learn and have used more stones, guides, and sharpeners like yours than you can shake a stick at. I find your statements to be misleading and damaging to the sharpening community all in the name of making a sale.

You should read some of the links in my sig line and the stickies at the top of this subforum to educate yourself on the facts of sharpening.

Anyone who takes pleasure in knocking something down before fully understanding what it is bespeaks more than a little arrogance, wouldn't you say?

You're free to come to any conclusion you like, (and no doubt already have before even browsing this thread.) You're a self-professed snob and aim to look down and dismiss anything you don't personally like; that doesn't fit your preferences.

No problem. But I will put my Selectool and a simple ceramic rod against any hand-held sharpener, and I am fully confident I will achieve a superior edge in less time, with less effort, than anything you can bring. I won't be taking 30, 15, 5, or even 2, but will accomplish everything in 60-90 seconds - on the dullest of knives.

That may not be anything worthy of your consideration, Mr. Hole Poker, Mr. I've Lost More Sharpeners Than You'll Ever Find And Be Quick to Point That Out, but I know LOTS of people to whom that will bring vast and lasting satisfaction.

And if that's not something worth posting about and defending against the likes of you and your instant uppity-ness, I don't know what is.

In fact, I'll challenge you with any hand-held sharpener you care to bring. You record your best video and I will do the same, and we can easily put this issue to bed once and for all. Let me know if you're up for it.

 

[jrneumiller]

"Peck-sniff"?

Can we get a Mod to put this thread out of its misery...

Your handle is apparently well earned. It's probably how you keep things tilted in your favor around here.

So I'll challenge you as well to achieve a superior edge using any hand-held sharpener you want to use. You can post a video of your best effort and I will do the same, and we will easily see who and what is worthy of being shut down by a moderator.

I've got NO PROBLEMS with someone who tries my product, gives it a fair shake, but ultimately doesn't like it. (Of course I will challenge that person whether he used it correctly or just copped an attitude,) but at least he tried it before rejecting it out of hand. That's acceptable to me, (because it's ultimately him that will lose out long term by not getting the benefits of this wonderful tool.) I think he would be profited if he came to achieve the results the tool provides, but won't stop him if he wants to leave it. As I said, at least he tried it before putting it away.

How does that compare with your comments? Did you humble yourself even a little to see whether this perhaps could be something interesting or different, or did you knee-jerk, "Carbide sharpener! Ruins edges! Bunch of junk!"

Yeah, I'm definitely calling you and anyone else out on this. You want your mod buddy to make things all nice and sweet again, be my guest, but the contents of this thread are already recorded and can easily be reposted on my website as a prime example of the kind of mindsets you run into from some people.

 

[jrneumiller]

Here's a cheap one that will probably suffice.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Handheld-US...712?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2343f5fc30

Okay, I've ordered one, and thanks for posting that. It's coming from Hong Kong so it will likely take a couple of weeks, but I will post results when I get it set up and running.

I know the striation pattern the Selectool provides and it is actually very nice. Depending on the leverage, pressure, and speed, I can produce a diagonal pattern as well as a horizontal one. It depends on how firmly you move the blade against the insert. Much of the pattern is highly smoothed after deburring on the built-in knife guide, but even at that point the edge is admittedly not perfect. It's extremely sharp and perfect as a working or utility edge, but not without visible faults.

The ceramic finishing rod takes care of that, though, producing a factory-quality edge in 30 seconds or less, and is visibly outstanding, (and for those who need an even finer, smoother edge, they are free at that point to continue along the path to the critical edge and use progressively finer hones until achieving the desired results.) They will find the shaping and initial smoothing processes much accelerated with the Selectool, though, and that is why MANY master sharpeners buy one for exactly that reason.

 

[bgentry]

I own your sharpener. I haven't used it in years because I had poor results with it. I haven't re-evaluated it in many years because I felt taken by an inferior product. I can sharpen with several systems and I think I understand the process quite well and possess some degree of skill.

What you don't seem to get is that your approach here is putting people off. You're not at a gun show, or even a meeting of normal people that might want to sharpen knives. You're in a specialized forum frequented by literally some of the most knowledgeable and skilled sharpeners around. This is a specialized group of ENTHUSIASTS, so their standards are Very high. You might call us obsessive. I've got no problem with that label.

In my estimation, you're now insulting several very prominent, skilled, and generous members here. Both of the ones you're having a pissing match with right now are incredible sharpeners with great reputations for their results and their contributions here. Both have made numerous videos to help others.

Finally, your "challenge" isn't exactly straightforward. All of us here have seen fragile edges formed with carbide sharpeners that slice paper, but instantly fail when cutting tougher media. How would we measure the actual results then? A series of cut tests? What knife? What cut tests? Do cosmetics matter at all, or is an ugly edge that works acceptable? See, it's not so easy as to just cut a sheet of paper and declare your sharpening job "done".

I'm trying very hard to be objective and NOT insult you. I'm not a moderator or anything. Just trying to let you know how some of us feel, while remaining civil.

Brian.

 

[jrneumiller]

I own your sharpener. I haven't used it in years because I had poor results with it. I haven't re-evaluated it in many years because I felt taken by an inferior product. I can sharpen with several systems and I think I understand the process quite well and possess some degree of skill.

What you don't seem to get is that your approach here is putting people off. You're not at a gun show, or even a meeting of normal people that might want to sharpen knives. You're in a specialized forum frequented by literally some of the most knowledgeable and skilled sharpeners around. This is a specialized group of ENTHUSIASTS, so their standards are Very high. You might call us obsessive. I've got no problem with that label.

In my estimation, you're now insulting several very prominent, skilled, and generous members here. Both of the ones you're having a pissing match with right now are incredible sharpeners with great reputations for their results and their contributions here. Both have made numerous videos to help others.

Finally, your "challenge" isn't exactly straightforward. All of us here have seen fragile edges formed with carbide sharpeners that slice paper, but instantly fail when cutting tougher media. How would we measure the actual results then? A series of cut tests? What knife? What cut tests? Do cosmetics matter at all, or is an ugly edge that works acceptable? See, it's not so easy as to just cut a sheet of paper and declare your sharpening job "done".

I'm trying very hard to be objective and NOT insult you. I'm not a moderator or anything. Just trying to let you know how some of us feel, while remaining civil.

Brian.

Thanks for your comments, Brian. I appreciate both them and the spirit in which they are given. And I know EXACTLY where I am and in whose company, as I have been extremely bold in pointing out.

You mention how generous and esteemed these two members are, but the first thing out of their mouths towards my product is arrogant assumption, thinking they know what my product is, (even though I spent copious time and effort describing its significant differences.) That's just plain arrogance no matter who it comes from, and I'm not going to have my product dismissed so easily out of hand by such people.

Obviously, if hand-sharpening a knife with a freehand stone or rod were easy to accomplish, there wouldn't really be much of a need for this forum in the first place, would there? But as it stands, it is so challenging to accomplish the same precise angle on both sides of a 50/50 edge, it's often considered a mark of manhood for the one who can do it.

Therefore, those stones and rods are only as good as the person and the technique using them. Are they to blame if the user doesn't get an excellent edge? Do people sniff and dismiss them because of the poor results they consistently provide?

Of course not! They are esteemed because they provide a very consistent challenge, the likes of which is extremely satisfying when achieved. As Tom Hanks character said in League of Their Own, "It's the hard that makes it great!" And I have respect for that, as far as it goes.

But if you're out in the field working with, say, an 18" machete, and you lose that crisp edge, will you be hauling around a file or a stone to get it back? And what of your questionable skills then? Will the masters of this forum be there to generously hold your hand at that point?

They will not, and for that reason, the Selectool is if nothing else, a fantastic field sharpener extraordinaire, and will more than pay for itself many times over for that provision alone.

To your comment about the thin and wiry edge that you suppose the Selectool produces, I will answer this: it produces a very nice burr, the likes of which you will achieve from the very best manual sharpening techniques. It is identically on-par with them, and must needs be refined if it will ever be anything more than a thin, wiry edge.

The Selectool has an built-in honing guide that smooths both sides evenly and independently - the same as the very best freehand techniques, producing a very nice "utility" or "working" edge - just like those vaunted stones. And if a finer edge is required, then finer grit hones must be applied, (which I advocate in a simple ceramic rod.) If further refinements are desired, the sky is the limit.

The vastly more important issue is one of bevel angle, or producing the same angle on both sides of the blade. I "get" that optimally, a 22.5° angle should be produced on both bevels, accomplishing a full 45° shaped edge.

That's very nice in a perfect world, but I don't know many people quite that skilled to produce exactly that profile each and every time they try it. (And how many people on this forum can even measure that precisely, to the extent they are producing 22.5°, rather than 23° or 22°?) Does the world stop if 22.5° isn't produced?

Hardly. The vaunted 22.5° angle is only an optimal ideal that doesn't produce anything magical or exemplary over 22 or 23 degrees. What will make a difference is when one side is 21° and the other is 25°. You'll definitely see visual and performance irregularities with that much of a mismatch.

Is that edge sharp? Decidedly! Will it cut stuff and provide lots of enjoyable use? Most definitely! In the real world, such divergences are of slight concern, but the fact remains - the closer both sides are to the same angle, the better the knife works, and lasts much longer in addition to being perfectly sharp.

And if the Selectool accomplishes exactly that - puts the same angle on both sides - should I just let the powers that be ignorantly dismiss and run that down? I will not, but will rather respond with as much boldness and fervor as is necessary.

I will start with a butterknife dull edge on virtually any typical knife, (let's leave the Benchmades and Henckels out of this for the time being.) Any normal kitchen knife about 4-6" long will be fine. The white handled food prep knives from Sam's Club would be fine. They have reasonable steel and take a nice edge.

I will dull one up with a file and literally destroy the edge. It will be ruined beyond repair for even the most dedicated stone-sharpener. I will take that knife and place it in the Selectool, and within 30 or so strokes, completely recover the original bevel on the one side. I will repeat this same process on the other side and get the exact same results. The knife is now precisely profiled, and I will continue the process by smoothing each side on the built-in hones, both left and right, until the knife is smooth, recovered, and impressively sharp. I will do this entire process in under 2 minutes, and if a razor quality edge is required, will finish it with 30 more seconds on a piece of ceramic.

I will video the process and post it for anyone to see. I will show via magnification how the tool achieves its results, and the quality of edge it ultimately produces. It will be sharp, smooth, and obviously clean as I glide the edge through a piece of paper like it was butter, (you know, the kind of test you perform on your own knives.)

And they can post their videos in reply. I have no doubt they will produce a master quality edge, but I doubt they will do it in under 10 minutes, and certainly not with a technique anyone can quickly acquire.

Maybe those master technicians will gain a modicum of respect for a tool that can work that fast and that well, but I won't hold my breath. The only way you put people like that in their places is to challenge and then beat them at their own game. Same with a playground bully. You bloody his nose a couple of times and he'll learn respect whether he wants to or not.

You have some people around here who can sharpen a knife? Let's see them at their best.

 

[IXLR8]

I picked one up at the gun show today for $20.

I saw him demoing them and after I picked up a cheap used Skyline that was quite dull I watched him put a very sharp edge on it in a matter of minutes. I was sold.

Junk. Marketing propaganda.

Pull through sharpeners are bad on an edge.

And here's this guy again........only this time he's correct. Unusual occurrences do happen from time to time.
Like bigfoot sightings.

 

[IXLR8]

So now your insulting us? Peck-sniffs?

I understand more about sharpening than you will ever learn and have used more stones, guides, and sharpeners like yours than you can shake a stick at. I find your statements to be misleading and damaging to the sharpening community all in the name of making a sale.

You should read some of the links in my sig line and the stickies at the top of this subforum to educate yourself on the facts of sharpening.

Here let me fix that for you.

Next time type " I am the God of sharpening. No one is better or more knowledgeable than me. I know how to sharpen a knife and the rest of you measly peons do not. I need your business and I am a business man and that is why I insult you. when it comes to sharpening a knife I am the end all be all, until I met IXLR8"


Kiss, Francis.

 

[Jason B.]

Here let me fix that for you.

Next time type " I am the God of sharpening. No one is better or more knowledgeable than me. I know how to sharpen a knife and the rest of you measly peons do not. I need your business and I am a business man and that is why I insult you. when it comes to sharpening a knife I am the end all be all, until I met IXLR8"


Kiss, Francis.

Ah yes, I see we have a try-hard.

 

[Moondrop]

Ugh. I need to go boil my fingers in bleach.

 

[Jason B.]

I'll take your challenge any day of the week. My skill is what makes sharp edges, not a device.

 

[IXLR8]

Ah yes, I see we have a try-hard.

My good man, "I can see.........we have a blowhard.

And before you go crying, let us define the term.

Blowhard - 1. A very boastful and talkative person
2. A self-important egomaniac who likes to toot his own horn, especially on the internet.
3. braggart boaster loudmouth windbag arrogant egotist pompous egomaniac.


I grow tired of hearing about your expertise. All the while knowing, all things equal.......you cannot put an edge on a knife any better than, you guessed it........me.

 

[IXLR8]

I'll take your challenge any day of the week. My skill is what makes sharp edges, not a device.

If he doesn't accept your challenge. I will. All things equal.
same blade steel, same rockwell . I was waiting for you to do this. I somehow just knew it was going to happen.