Hatchet Instead of Knife?

I just came back from trying a Gerber (Fiskars) Back Paxe on an oak that came down in the wind a few weeks ago. The hatchet is 9" long, weighs 19 oz. according to the Survival Inc. page:

http://www.gerbergear.com/product.php?model=5912
http://www.survivalinc.com/product_view.cfm?product_ID=573&subproduct_ID=919

I just did a little minor limbing, mostly whacking up the springy green branches to pile better for later burning. I could usually whack through a 1" brach with one good backhand swipe at 45 degrees into the grain. 2" branches took a few whacks. I counted blows to get through a 4-1/2" branch, working one-handed but otherwise with axe style: 45 degrees one way, 45 degrees the other and pop the chip out. 75 chops to separation. The annoying thing about this hatchet is that it is so short it wants to slip out of your hand. You really have to whip the thing to do good chopping.

I also have a Fiskars hatchet that is a little longer. It isn't that much heavier but works a whole lot better.

http://www.fiskars.com/US/Garden/Product+Detail?contentId=85474

I guess I had my weights a little off. I was thinking that the small hatchet was lighter than a knife, but that isn't necessarily so. The knife that I have been mentally comparing to is the Becker BK7/BK77 with a 7" blade at 13 oz, 6 oz less than the Back Paxe:

http://www.camillusknives.com/1mainframe.htm?bkt/bk7.shtml~main
http://www.camillusknives.com/1mainframe.htm?bkt/bk77.shtml~main

I don't have a large knife to compare to my hatchets. I might get a BK7 to try though. Trying to compare one person's chopping with one tool to a different person's chopping with another toll is a but tenuous.

One job I did think of where a knife might work a lot better is as a weapon. Against an animal I would suspect a knife is better. I am not sure about with people though. I would think a hatchet would have more psychological effect on an assailant.

Just some thoughts.

Scott

P.S. I went back and tried the 14" hatchet on the same branch: 39 chops to separation.
 
beezaur said:
I went back and tried the 14" hatchet on the same branch: 39 chops to separation.
Click to expand...

I have that hatchet, the bit is very thick, it actually bounces out of the denser local woods, you can't for example stick it in a trunk while gathering wood as it comes back out again. You could easily get a much lighter knife with similar chopping ability, even superior on a lot of woods. If Wetterlings are available locally you might want to check them out, they are fairly inexpensive and have typical hollow ground hard wood profiles. A small folding saw would also be very comparable in terms of speed and effort, possibly faster depending on your experience.

-Cliff
 
Lightweight Hudson's Bay axes are a preferred tool in many parts of the north. My favorite for packing is a 3/4 size Snow & Neally -- the firm's been around for a century or so. Pair it with a small fixed blade or multi-tool and that should be all you really need. Ax for chopping, knife for slicing.
 
Cliff Stamp said:
I have that hatchet, the bit is very thick, it actually bounces out of the denser local woods, you can't for example stick it in a trunk while gathering wood as it comes back out again. . .
Click to expand...

Haven't noticed that being a problem, but then I haven't done a lot of "trunk sticking" either..

Cliff Stamp said:
You could easily get a much lighter knife with similar chopping ability, even superior on a lot of woods. . .
Click to expand...

I am not sure what proper chopping technique is for a knife. Do you basically just whack like with a machete? Is the BK7 a contender for that role?

Cliff Stamp said:
If Wetterlings are available locally you might want to check them out, they are fairly inexpensive and have typical hollow ground hard wood profiles. A small folding saw would also be very comparable in terms of speed and effort, possibly faster depending on your experience.

-Cliff
Click to expand...

The local shop carries Collins, but not much is available locally. I even had to order a sheath for my double bitted axe. It isn't so stinkin' cold anymore, so I have more opportunities to try all these things. I'll have to order some stuff and try all these things out, good excuse to clean the place up!

Scott
 
I am currently working on the smallest Wetterlings (#13) because of inspiration from this thread. I thought a thinner edge may be a nice compromise so I ground it pretty thin on an Edge Pro today. As luck would have it I was able to go out and test it on a Cherry Blossom tree that was still alive but had been damaged from a car accidennt (about 8" Diameter) the little hatchet had no problem at all cutting through it. I really whalloped it and there is nary a ding or roll along the whole edge.

For the money its a bloody nice bit of kit and with the finer edge, rounded and polished poll to allow for a comfortable grip that wont hurt the web of your hand it makes an nice alternative cutting tool to a knife.

I will post pics when she is finished.
 
Temper said:
...I ground it pretty thin on an Edge Pro today.
Click to expand...

How acute? As axes get smaller the angles can get lower because the impact energies are much lower, a 15 degree angle is on the bubble for a felling axe in regards to durability but for a hatchet it is insanely durable.

beezaur said:
Haven't noticed that being a problem, but then I haven't done a lot of "trunk sticking" either..
Click to expand...

Depends on the wood, the same thing would happen if you tried to actually fell the tree of course.

Do you basically just whack like with a machete? Is the BK7 a contender for that role?
Click to expand...

Similar yes, the optimal technique depends on the user, if you are very strong in the wrist you can drive very hard for example, but if you are not then you can't. If you are very strong in the upper back then you can really bring that into the cut as well. On some blades that are very light then you can't get much power into the blade so you just move it fast, leukos are like that. The BK7 isn't a very powerful chopper for its size, it is too neutral in balance.

-Cliff
 
Cliff, she is about 25 deg now but after yesterday I am thinking og going to 20 then a 25 secondary. It now had a grind that looks a little like the GB.
 
Yeah, I will play with it a little and probably round some of it off to make paper/mouse pad sharpening easier, but considering how well this steel holds up I dont think sharpening will be anything more than once or twice a year. I would like to see a large camp knife made from this steel to see how it holds up in thinner stock.
 
I know this is off subject but did you put something on your Bisley Grips to make them so dark? Also after looking at your pistol on all your post, I have decided to get one in 44 Mag! So I guess I will have to play James Bond and hide the new gun from my wife. I keep telling her that Guns and Knives are like Chips, you can't have just one!
 
RickJ said:
I know this is off subject but did you put something on your Bisley Grips to make them so dark? Also after looking at your pistol on all your post, I have decided to get one in 44 Mag! So I guess I will have to play James Bond and hide the new gun from my wife. I keep telling her that Guns and Knives are like Chips, you can't have just one!
Click to expand...
Hey RickJ, good choice! :D I bought this gun used. The grips were like that when I got it plus I'm sure it had a trigger job. I'm not sure but if Ruger is still making the Bisley, 45 colt and 44 mag are the only calibers it would come in. Sorry to say but the 41 mag. is discontinued. If you're wife finds out, you can blame me. :p :D
Scott
 
its called antler arts and they have very good pieces but...for usable
items on the western side of sisters on the north side The Mountain
Man store for us po' folk lol
tyrant
 
Ah yes, I remember that store, my wife bought a pair of leather mocasins there.
We will have to make a trip back there soon, we're only a couple hrs. away.
 
Got a fair bit of work done today, the poll is especially nice. I will be taking it down to #1200 on the head, then Linseed oiling the handle. She should be ready in about a week or so. :D

I am really falling in love with this little hatchet :) My wife asked me how many axes I have now (*SLAP) the answer of course was 'not enough' :foot:
 
Apologies if you all know this book already but 'Hatchet' by Gary Paulsen will tickle the fancies of many on this forum, 'Hatchet Winter' is also a corker.
A young boy finds himself in a survival situation after a plane crash in the deep northwoods. He has no knife, just a hatchet. A childrens' book but great fun.
 
The Wetterlings axe looks nice. I have a Gerber axe and just don't like it that much.

Any recommendation on handle length? Knifecenter.com carries a 15" axe and an 18-3/4" axe. My most common uses are light chopping and removing smaller branches from logs before cutting with a saw.

Ken K.
 
With Wetterlings the # usually means the handle length.

IIRC they should be 13 16 & 20 for Hatchets.

If you are only using it for light stuff I recommend the #13. If you wait up a little you can see one that has been 'tuned' :)
 
OK, I got it done in a relatively short time :)

I have some pics of it compared to an example that is typical from Wetterlings. As you can see, they are not that big on aesthetics. :D

Here we have them as 'Stock' and 'Tuned'

Stock-and-tuned02.jpg


Next a look at the poll from the side. This was done to allow you to use the hatchet as a knife for more delicate work, without the poll cutting into the web of your hand, or being uncomfortable in general.

poll-side-by-side02.jpg


The poll face top and bottom, probably no perfromance increase here, but if 'a jobs worth doing..... :)

poll.jpg


Top.jpg


Underneath.jpg


And finally the thing that brings the most joy, the hand rubbed mirror finish.

Mirror.jpg


The handle was also stripped of varnish and treated with Linseed oil.
 
Wow! I like that, Temper!

How do you do the linseed treatment? Just soak the end of the handle?

The thing I don't like about wood handles is that they get loose. I assume they stay tight a while with linseed oil treatment.

How do you like using that for fine work, in place of a knife?

Scott
 
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