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Hatchet sharpening question...

W

WillieD

Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Messages
267
I'm trying to get a shaving sharp edge on an old hatchet that was given to me. Noticed I said trying. I even went out and bought a new 10" bastard cut file. I'm holding the file at about a 25deg angle per side and it just doesn't seem to be removing anymore of the shoulder. I can't raise a burr. Whats the trick? Do I need a coarser file to do the reprofiling and go back to the bastard cut to raise the burr? Just seems like its taking forever and doesn't feel like the file is biting in at all. Any help would be great.
 
A couple of excellent and recent threads on this topic. I suggest a search or just scroll down the threads page.
 
yeah, read the thread down the page, but it doesn't explain why I'm not removing metal. The metal hardness must be really up there or something. The last ax I sharpened took a burr almost right away and I could feel the file taking off a good bit of metal. Not like that with this one though.
 
Few thoughts, is your file worn? Is it loaded up? Try cleaning the file and only applying pressure on the push stroke, then lifting the file when pulling it toward you.

Also, there is certainly a difference in hardness among axe heads.
 
It's a brand new file. It doesn't look loaded up, but I have been going over it with a wire brush to clean it. Is a wire brush too big to clean a file? I don't have a regular file cleaner to see how fine the brush is. Maybe I just need more time to reshape, but it just seems to be taking so long. a couple of hours, off and on, already.
 
WillieD said:
yeah, read the thread down the page, but it doesn't explain why I'm not removing metal. The metal hardness must be really up there or something. The last ax I sharpened took a burr almost right away and I could feel the file taking off a good bit of metal. Not like that with this one though.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I'm no good at sharpening so I've tried to bookmark most other sharpening threads. How about this one:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=823782
 
If you are really going at it 25 degrees per side that is 50 degrees included.

Very hard to call that sharp- better suited to a dedicated splitter.

Any idea that you need to see the burr as a big wire is way off. All you need is something you can detect with your finger- this can be very very small.

You should be able to develop a bur within a few strokes with that file. Can't say how many exactly. Certainly not 1 hours work.

How are you holding the head stable? That's a good place to start so's to get you on track.

I missed the part about the file not biting somehow. What kind of file ie name brand?
 
It's a 10" Nicholson Bastard file. I'm holing the back of the head in a vice with the edge laying horizontal. I guess I'll go more shallow on teh angle. I didn't know if going to 20deg or less woul dmake the edge too fragile for chopping and splitting. The angle was crazy wide when I started and I had to file the edge flat to remove quite a few chips in the edge. I could probably raise a burr right away, but the angle would be WAY too wide. I need to really thin down the cheeks a good bit yet.
 
First of all, you should start at a very shallow angle a ways from the edge (maybe 3/4 to an inch), and become progressively steeper as you go toward the edge. That will make the edge a convex. Straight angles won't cut as well.

If it's a new file and not taking metal, it the file "skating", i.e. does it feel like it's sliding without taking metal? If so, the metal is too hard to file. You may have to start using the coarse side of a stone.

Once you have a burr (that you can feel with your fingernail), flip over and repeat on the other side. Then to go the fine side of the stone until you have a burr on one side, flip over and repeat. You should now have a fairly smooth satin looking finish on each side and a slight burr. Now it's time to strop it. An old belt works, or you can get a dedicated strop, use the backside of some cardboard, etc. This polishes the edge and removes the wire edge.

One thing to learn is that when going from DULL to sharp, it takes a LONG time doing it by hand. Once you get it sharp, it's easier to keep it sharp than to have to start over from dull again.
 
Cpl Punishment said:
...does it feel like it's sliding without taking metal? If so, the metal is too hard to file. You may have to start using the coarse side of a stone...
Click to expand...

At times like these, I use this kind of coarse stone, it's 14" with the handle,
and you can bear down on it and get a good stroke:

Norton 87750
11raQ8W3PiL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
 
Metal must be too hard to file then. That describes it pretty well in teh above thread. A course diamond pocket hone that I have is removing more metal than the file. Guess I'll have at it with that. Thanks for the help everyone!
 
It would be very unusual for an axe head to be that hard.

Perhaps it is and is the reason for the chips you talked about earlier.

Such high hardness could almost be considered a heat treat flaw for and axe. (I say , could almost be, only because maybe there is some ubersmith out there that could pull it off with the right steel and geometry)

If it is harder than a file(even GB which are said to be harder than most axe are readily cut with file) what is going to happen first time you strike dry wood?

Point tempering could fix it to some degree but you need to be sure
 
For some axes, like my Norlunds, I have to push down really hard or the file does not bite into the metal at all. It may be that you just need to apply more pressure with the file.
 
Briarbrow said:
It would be very unusual for an axe head to be that hard.

Perhaps it is and is the reason for the chips you talked about earlier.

Such high hardness could almost be considered a heat treat flaw for and axe. (I say , could almost be, only because maybe there is some ubersmith out there that could pull it off with the right steel and geometry)

If it is harder than a file(even GB which are said to be harder than most axe are readily cut with file) what is going to happen first time you strike dry wood?

Point tempering could fix it to some degree but you need to be sure
Click to expand...

I would say this. I have never met an axe/hatchet/blade in general i couldnt file with my nicholson file. So its either something with the metal or you have the wrists of a young girl. :)
 
Operator1975 said:
I would say this. I have never met an axe/hatchet/blade in general i couldnt file with my nicholson file. So its either something with the metal or you have the wrists of a young girl. :)
Click to expand...

Hey, my wrists get worked out plenty! Oh wait... nevermind. I clamped the head a bit different and if I REALLY got on top of the file, I was taking some more material off the cheeks, but I'm having good luck with a course diamond to try to shape the steel behind the bevel. Everytime I think I have the angle good, I take it to some sandpaper on a mouse pad and the angle is still to extreme for me. This thing barely had an edge on it before. The bevel angle had my file out sideways. Lots of metal to remove on the cheeks. I decided that instead of going with the finer stones to convex the edge more and polish it with wet/dry.
 
More pressure needed in your stroke. Might try and use a belt sander going slow and keeping the heat on the head down.
 
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