Hatchet vs. Big ol' knife

[akennedy73]

This issue has probably been raised before - but I'm wondering on which side of the fence people fall on this one and why.

Given what you do in the outdoors, do you prefer a big chopping blade (something like a Becker 9" 18.25oz blade) or a hatchet + smaller fixed blade (something like a GB Mini Hatchet 11oz + Frosts Mora 3.7oz)?

In the past, I tended toward a big chopping blade. The typical argument goes: it's a single tool that does both the work of a small knife as well as completing any necessary chopping tasks. Basically, a big knife can do what a small knife can - but a small knife cannot do what a big knife is capable of.

Then I changed my mind. First, I wanted to shave ounces off of my backpacking load. And then, it made intuitive sense to have the weight of a chopping instrument concentrated behind the cutting edge - a hatchet's weight is concentrated in its head whereas a chopping knife's weight is spread out along the length of the blade. Basically, my rationale was that by specializing the tools to the task (a hatchet for chopping and a small fixed blade for cutting/whittling/etc.) I could get the same overall performance of a large chopping blade but save a few ounces.

I realize this is probably more a matter of personal preference and that there is no hard and fast way to definitively conclude which solution is better. But I'm interested in others' opinions concerning the large chopping blade vs. hatchet+small fixed blade.

 

[Karl5]

Hatchet + smaller fixed blade for me.
I find it more versatile and not necessarily any heavier.

/ Karl

 

[hollowdweller]

I love khukuris and stuff, but if you are talking backpacking, and chopping versus trail clearing IMO the hatchet is the clear winner.

My problem with a lot of the larger chopping blades is really they are just for chopping. They really aren't that handy for doing anything else camp related that I do. Also many are too thick.

I fooled with a friends Camp Tramp, and as far as chopping I think actually a GB mini for instance is way better and actually you can use it for some knife related stuff(the mini) also.

Now if you were cutting a lot of stuff like you'd use a machete for I might want to go for a big blade or khukuri, but pound for pound a hatchet will give me more chopping power.

 

[tarmix101]

My problem with a lot of the larger chopping blades is really they are just for chopping. They really aren't that handy for doing anything else camp related that I do. Also many are too thick.

Ditto!

 

[Cliff Stamp]

... a hatchet's weight is concentrated in its head whereas a chopping knife's weight is spread out along the length of the blade.

A long blade properly balanced is much more versatile because of this property because there are multiple impact points. You can cut through the tip for maximum speed for cutting wood which isn't very rigid or close to the choil for maximum inertial impact on thick woods which are pretty much fixed in place. A hatchet only has the latter point.

My problem with a lot of the larger chopping blades is really they are just for chopping. They really aren't that handy for doing anything else camp related that I do. Also many are too thick.

The same can be said of many hatchets, they are too thick and don't chop or cut well. It is fairly biased to compare a quality hatchet and tactical/utility long blade to generalize on hatchet vs long blades. Compare similar tools, the Bruks Wildlife vs Valiant Golok for example and the Golok is actually lighter.

I'd want an axe if I was felling wood to burn for the winter, a long blade otherwise.

-Cliff

 

[Tikirocker]

I've discussed this elsewhere but basically in the Australian outback and our vast climates - we get freezing winters in snowy mountain country as well as deserts that never see rain! - I'd want a biggish fixed blade knife and some type of Australian Military machete + one other folder or smaller fixed bladed skinner.

Here's a couple of my choices ... 1st the Tusker.

A Darwin Skinner ... as my skinner blade.

Another Darwin Skinner ...

And a lightweight Machete to carry on pack webbing or body.

 

[longbow50]

I have a few ways to go. Utilizing both chopping knife and small axe, as well as mid sized knives and SAKs.

Here is what I've settled on for the time being, but I usually swap out the fixed blade with others I have.

 

[Shann]

I have very limited experience, especially with the hatchet. For limbing and chopping small saplings, etc., I have found that the khukris that I have are easier to use. Don't know if I mean more efficient, just that for me, the khuks are more accurate and easier to use. It might be that the longer blade of the khuk does not require as much accuracy as the smaller head of the hatchet to do an okay job.

I'm talking about one hand chopping of course. As Cliff notes, if you are doing heavy chopping you would want an axe and you'd want to use two hands on the axe. I have a very heavy 30" long khuk that is very cool, but doesn't really work that well as a chopper compared to an axe of similar weight.

 

[Tikirocker]

I couldn't find a machete pic earlier but this Australia WW2 machete would do the trick - light weight and perfect for scrub.

 

[Grampa]

I'd want an axe if I was felling wood to burn for the winter, a long blade otherwise.

Pretty much agree, although if we're talking firewood for the house or cabin, I'd trade the axe for a chainsaw in a heartbeat!

 

[reconseed]

the answer to this thread. American Tomahawk Company.

I also would carry my Spyderco Chinook II or a smaller Swamp Rat fixed blade. I have never owned a Rat but I hear they are the best knives on the market today... SO....I would carry a small swamp rat and the ATC VTAC LaGana hawk'. Aint nothing going to stop me with these blades.

 

[hollowdweller]

I have very limited experience, especially with the hatchet. For limbing and chopping small saplings, etc., I have found that the khukris that I have are easier to use. Don't know if I mean more efficient, just that for me, the khuks are more accurate and easier to use. It might be that the longer blade of the khuk does not require as much accuracy as the smaller head of the hatchet to do an okay job.

I totally agree. With the khukuri you do not have to aim as precisely and you don't have to change positions as much. I find it virtually impossible to comfortably chop under a log with a hatchet

I don't think a large straight blade of the same weight has that flexibility either.

But in the original post it said:

"Then I changed my mind. First, I wanted to shave ounces off of my backpacking load. And then, it made intuitive sense to have the weight of a chopping instrument concentrated behind the cutting edge - a hatchet's weight is concentrated in its head whereas a chopping knife's weight is spread out along the length of the blade. Basically, my rationale was that by specializing the tools to the task (a hatchet for chopping and a small fixed blade for cutting/whittling/etc.) I could get the same overall performance of a large chopping blade but save a few ounces."

I came to the same conclusion. I used to backpack with a 25 oz khukuri but I found that I could chop as large things(albeit with more concentration on the cut and changes in position) with a 18 or 20 oz hatchet, so I went with that.

When I'm hiking at home and weight is not a factor, or if I was backpacking on an overgrown trail I'd still opt for the khukuri due to the dual purpose aspect and the fact like you say chopping with a khukuri is easier for me.

 

[Ravaillac]

A long blade properly balanced is much more versatile because of this property because there are multiple impact points. You can cut through the tip for maximum speed for cutting wood which isn't very rigid or close to the choil for maximum inertial impact on thick woods which are pretty much fixed in place.

You can grab the axe closer to the head...

A long knife has long cutting edge. I can't see the need for a long cutting edge except for brush cleaning (or knife fighting :jerkit: ). For anything else you'll end using mostly the same parts of the edge.
On the other end "small" handle prevents from using both hands, makes the knife more dangerous, reduce grip options...

Good long knife ("camp knife" ) are somewhat valuable since there aren't many axes in that size range (and weight range), and since you can to some extend use them for "small knife" choirs.
Plus they might be used as drawknife, or batonned for careful splitting.
Despite that I'd still consider them as less useful.

As for choosing an axe, I'd go for the "utility" or "limbing axe" (hand to armpit handle e.g. Gransfors SFA), because it is only marginally heavier then hatchet while being quite a lot more powerful and versatile. Plus it can ride inside a day pack (30-45 liters) without being notice.

The drawback is of course that hatchet are typically 3 times heavier then "camp knives" and two times heavier then machetes, so you might carry then less constantly.

 

[Tikirocker]

I would think also that a persons climate and invironment has to determine the need for a particular implement - as I said earlier; in Australia you don't need much more than a big bush knife and a machete and perhaps a small three blade folder like the stockman. It wouldn't be practical here to carry a hatchet or axe in the outback for several reasons.

1 = Weight -- in the heat and distances that need covering day to day forget anything heavy like an axe or hatchet - even a kukri is overkill.

2 = Right tool for the right job -- in OZ you can easily find dry branches and bark to make a humpy or shelter without needing to fell whole trees and create log cabins! These can be broken by hand and foot and fashioned with a big knife and the help of a machete.

3 = Look to your indigenous people -- in OZ, the Aboriginal people - the oldest native people on earth ( over 50,000 years old! ) - never required a hatchet or an axe to get any job done that couldn't be done by other methods and means. These people got around the outback with hand made tools from stone and wood. A big knife and a machete allows you to fashion such tools.

Weight + Practicality + Necessity = rules a hatchet or axe out in this country and I would half imagine they would be overkill even in some northern climates too.

 

[hollowdweller]

3 = Look to your indigenous people -- in OZ, the Aboriginal people - the oldest native people on earth ( over 50,000 years old! ) - never required a hatchet or an axe to get any job done that couldn't be done by other methods and means. These people got around the outback with hand made tools from stone and wood.

What are their main edged tools that they used?

 

[Tikirocker]

G'day Hollowdweller.

They fashioned a lot of stone tools mate - they made stone knives and stone axes and the benefit of these is that when you get good at it you can just make em and then leave them at sites you move to and from without the need to carry them around. There are pictures online if you do a search of Aboriginal stone knives ... many of them look just like some of the small mouse blades etc. Then ofcourse you have the spears and wooden edged implements.

 

[sodak]

My problem with a lot of the larger chopping blades is really they are just for chopping. They really aren't that handy for doing anything else camp related that I do. Also many are too thick.

That's pretty funny, I was going to say the exact same thing about hatchets! Personally, I go for the larger knife, for me, it's much more functional, and my edges aren't thick. My large Bowies outcut my hatchets. Going up from that are my khukuris, then axe. I don't see the need for the hatchet, whatever I'm doing with it can be done with other more useful tools, and at the same weight.

YMMV.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Pretty much agree, although if we're talking firewood for the house or cabin, I'd trade the axe for a chainsaw in a heartbeat!

Not much fun in that. I cut 10-15 truckloads of wood each year with an axe, currently an Iltis. It doesn't actually take that long to do the felling, limbing is however much faster with the chainsaw. But personally it is the carrying and bucking that takes all the real effort. Moving a 12" pine stick around is quite a lot harder than actually chopping it down.

You can grab the axe closer to the head...

This isn't the same thing, that just makes it more static. Cutting with the tip of a knife generates maximum speed which is necessary when cutting wood which isn't very rigid. You can't do that with an axe because it isn't designed for it and has essentially one balance point because both the static and dynamic points are at the same location. However a long blade properly balanced is so capable and will have a point near the choil where it is axe like in behavior (static point) and then a point further out in the tip where it is machete like (dynamic point). Possum has discussed this issue in detail.

A long knife has long cutting edge. I can't see the need for a long cutting edge except for brush cleaning ...

Many tasks can be much more efficient if you use the blade to its capabilities and realize that it isn't an axe and should not be used like one. For example when limbing a stick with a long blade you start a cut near the choil and sweep out through the entire length of the blade, this adds the rotational momentum to the power of the cut. You can't do this with a axe because it takes only a small arc before the edge isn't in contact with the wood any more so ou basically have to do straight push chops. This easily gives even a small long blade (10") around a 2:1 advantage, usually more.

... if you are doing heavy chopping you would want an axe and you'd want to use two hands on the axe.

Yeah, the minimum axe I would carry is a small two hander like the Bruks small forest, and quite franky, outside of some severe artifical constraints, I would carry at least the Forest axe. The actual effort of carrying the weight is insignificant compared to the difference it makes if you have to actually do any wood work.

-Cliff

 

[sevenedges]

A folding knife (or two) since I always take two with me everywhere. And a large blade is my preference. something around 10" is about right depending on the thickness of the blade. 1/4" spine at 10" is about right for me. Or a longer blade if it's thinner. Cliff stole all my answers so I really have nothing more to say.

 

[Halcon]

I use to be an advocate of the chopper over a hatchet. Upon further examination and use, I realized a hatchet is much more than just a chopping tool. It is a hook, step up, hammer, and knife all rolled up into one.

Hook: It can be used to give you that extra reach when you are climbing a tree for example. You hook it on the branch which is just beyond your reach then you jump and pull at the same time so you can grab the branch with the free hand. You can also use it as a hook to lift away debris piles. You never know what nasty critter is waiting under the pile ready to strike... You can't do that with a knife.

hammer: pound in tent stakes, break windows, anything you would need a hammer for... can't do that with a knife.

stepup: bury the head into a tree and use it as a step up to climb... try that with a knife.

Knife: I've used it to clean fish and dress game... yes a knife can do that but can it do everything else?

when you sit and think about it the hatchet is far more versatile. Don't think so? why do firemen use axes instead of swords then?

Alan