Hatchet vs. Big ol' knife

[Vivi]

Halcon, the only thing on your list that strikes me as incapable for a knife is hooking, but even in some of the applications you mention in that area there are ways to go about the work. For instance, stabbing a knife into something then lifting it up to check under the debris you mention.

Simply turn a knife edge facing up and it can easily be used to hammer. Glass wouldn't put up much fight with a good whack or a stab. Many fixed blades are very thick and could easily be used as a step without snapping.

 

[hollowdweller]

I love threads like this.

But back to the original post a two handed axe is way too heavy to carry for backpacking, and at least for me the GB mini which is less than a pound is a better chopper than a khuk or big knife that weighs a pound for the stuff I use them for backpacking.

Cliff,

How do you move the logs around you chop? Do you have a work horse?

 

[Tikirocker]

... when you sit and think about it the hatchet is far more versatile. Don't think so? why do firemen use axes instead of swords then?

Alan

We don't see too many firemen in the desert.

 

[SkunkWerX]

Why don't firemen use hatchets? The Fireman's axe is made for a specific job, which doesn't include wilderness activities.

I rarely pick up a hatchet, or hand axe anymore. The most I use them for is splitting small chunks of oak and cherry for my smoker-bbq. However, on Sunday I used my RAT7, which handled reducing small chunks into smaller chunks just fine.
2 weekends before I used the BK1 for the same purpose, on larger stock. With my sharpening and reprofiling job the BK1 put my hatchets to shame.

As Cliff has pointed to time and again, blade and tip speed matter, and are better developed in a longer Fixed blade. The BK1's more acute blade geometry coupled with the additional speed developed made splitting straight grained Oak more like a karate chop motion, than the forceful pounding motion typical of a hatchet.

I will agree a hatchet usually makes a more formidable hammer, but, beyond that, I'd go with the large fixed blade over the hatchet if I could only carry one.

I'm going to take wild-arsed guess about origins and uses of hatchets.
Going back in history, they needed to use the larger hunk of metal to beat their way through wood, as they didn't have access to the more refined metal alloys of today. Hundreds of years ago, pre-industrial revolution, the commoner would have trashed a thinner fixed blade in a hurry, mostly due to metalurgy issues. The hatchet with it's mass and thicker profile allowed the common folk to pound away, with what we would consider fairly inferior metal.

 

[Tikirocker]

The Fireman's axe is made for a specific job, which doesn't include wilderness activities.

Yup ... oh and yup.

 

[the possum]

I find it virtually impossible to comfortably chop under a log with a hatchet

I don't think a large straight blade of the same weight has that flexibility either.

Hollowdweller-
While this may be true in and of itself, why do you need to chop under logs in a wilderness situation? Sure, in your picture where you've already got a log laying across a nice chopping fixture and it's supported on both ends, it makes sense to chop underneath so the pressure doesn't bind your blade. (in that situation, I'd be using a chainsaw myself) But out in the woods, stuff to chop will usually be either laying on the ground, where it's impossible to chop the underside with anything, or will be held on one end only, such as a treetop that was blown down or a standing sapling. Then as you cut through, it makes much more sense to chop on top, so that as the free end falls down your notch is opened wider rather than binding your blade.

I saw your review a while back where the small hatchet vastly out chopped knives twice its weight. Thanks for sharing that. I will add though, I think there are long blades that could chop better for less weight as well.

Axes and bigger hatchets excel at chopping thick wood. I don't chop thick wood when I'm strolling through the woods. I usually only have need to chop through smaller more easily managed woods and brush, so in that case of course a long knife will be better suited. It will easily be the hatchet's equal at chopping stuff on the thicker end of the spectrum and can do lots more stuff (that I tend to do) that a hatchet can't.

A hatchet can be used to perform smaller knife like functions by choking up on the handle, and a big knife can also handle smaller chores. I would have a folder paired with either one anyway, so I don't see much advantage to one or the other there.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

It can be used to give you that extra reach when you are climbing a tree for example. You hook it on the branch which is just beyond your reach then you jump and pull at the same time so you can grab the branch with the free hand. You can also use it as a hook to lift away debris piles. You never know what nasty critter is waiting under the pile ready to strike... You can't do that with a knife.

Use the knife to cut a stick of the required shape. I don't thick I would but doing either of those with a well sharpened axe for several reasons.

hammer: pound in tent stakes, break windows, anything you would need a hammer for... can't do that with a knife.

Spine/poll of the knife.

bury the head into a tree and use it as a step up to climb... try that with a knife.

Done that, don't recommend it because you are walking on a sharpened piece of steel.

why do firemen use axes instead of swords then?

Because they are better demolition tools.

How do you move the logs around you chop?

I lift them, getting them balanced on the shoulder is the hard part, especially for the heavy wood because you have to cut it fairly short so it isn't insanely heavy, but this actually makes it harder to shoulder because you can't get under it. Unless you want to cut them so short you can just chest carry them, which no one does because it would take forever to move the wood. Normally the wood is small, 4-8" however last year I spent some time carrying 8-12" wood which was being cut for lumber. The larger spruce is hell to carry, you can feel it across your chest as all the weight is on one side of your body so it basically tries to pull you apart. You also have to be really careful where you walk because if you slip and several hundred pounds of log come down on you then you are not getting back up anytime soon.

I usually only have need to chop through smaller more easily managed woods and brush, so in that case of course a long knife will be better suited. It will easily be the hatchet's equal at chopping stuff on the thicker end of the spectrum and can do lots more stuff (that I tend to do) that a hatchet can't.

I think critically you need to be aware of quality. You can easily take something like the Bruks Wildlife and TOP's Steel Eagle and show a large knife is pretty next to useless in comparison to the axe for any wood work. You could also do the same by comparing a decent parang to some utility store axe and get the reverse comparison. Most of the larger blades are fairly solid but the edges are just too thick/obtuse. Take a x-coarse stone or file and apply a 10 degree relief and then sharpen the final edge at 15 degrees and you can increase the chopping performance of most of them by about 50% on thick wood and more than 2:1 on lighter wood, similar for carving and general cutting. The balance is usually off too but that is harder to fix because as you have shown you basically have to taper the blade/tang and then reweight the pommel.

-Cliff

 

[Halcon]

I would hate to argue with you guys but firefighters are in the woods all the time fighting forest fires.

Lets not forget we have a specialty group called smoke jumpers and here is a picture of their tools

Vivi, have you ever tried to break a car window with a big knife? I have and I assure you it is not as easy as it may sound.

A knife will never, I repeat, never have the hammer power of a hatchet.

Alan

 

[Tikirocker]

I would hate to argue with you guys but firefighters are in the woods all the time fighting forest fires.

Alan

Yeah but this is now a discussion at complete cross purposes - what starts out as an analogy of a tools use in a given situation - ie a Firefighter - becomes confused with a tools usefuless and practicality in a completely different situation - are we now saying that because firefighters use axes that wilderness types and survivalists are better served by an axe than something else?

It's all about the right tool for the right job.

I don't know a single survivalist or wilderness type in my part of the world that would deliberately carry an axe or hatchet into the outback, desert, mountains or rainforest for all of the reasons I have previously stated. A machete and a biggish fixed blade are ample to get any job done.

As I said before - who needs an axe unless you plan to carve a log cabin out of the woods? In any other situation besides that an axe is a totally impractical burden and overkill; I can't be any plainer than that.

 

[Halcon]

I see where you are headed with this Tiki so I will indulge you.

Jungle-- machete
forest-- hatchet
desert--hatchet. Unless of course it's the sahara desert then it's a shovel
fight-- gun

I am not trying to argue, in fact I agree. The right tool for the job is the way to go.

If you reread the first post, it read, big knife or hatchet+smaller fixed blade.

I would like to add, I carry hatchet and small fixed blade in every outdoor situation. Now you know of at least one person who does. Dirttime Dude is another who carries a hatchet with him all the time. that is two.

I sold all my big blades quite a while ago.

Alan

 

[Tikirocker]

Actually Alan I would venture this instead; as I have seen it supported by many in my land older and wiser than myself - I happen to concur of my own accord however and find myself in general alignment of view, thus ...

Jungle - machete + biggish fixed blade
Forest - machete + biggish fixed blade
Desert - machete + biggish fixed blade
Fight - depends on who or what it is and what you have to hand at the time!

I understand the first post but it was couched in such a way as to suggest the choice was limited only to that combination. What I am suggesting is that from what I observe in my own khaki continent and in the jungles of the pacific and other great lands to the north - that ultimately a man may go further and get further with less drain on energy and provision with a light weight machete and a single biggish fixed bladed knife.

This is my own assertian based on observances plus my own common sense tells me that a machete + a biggish fixed blade is all I would want or need to get any given job done in any climate I may need to do it in ... unless ofcourse I was a firefighter putting out fires or breaking car windows.

 

[Blue Sky]

I used to be firmly in the hatchet camp. Then one day after my 12" Ontario machete arrived I used it to do a little woods walking and trail clearing. Took a small hatchet with me too. To my surprise I came out of the woods with the hatchet in my belt and the machete in my hand. It was a real eye-opener. I still love using axes and hatchets for wood work but no longer doubt the usefulness and versatility of the big blade.

 

[longbow50]

Ah heck, use what you're comfortable using and call it good. But I wouldn't turn my back on gaining expertise with other edged tools. You never know when you'll need it.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I sold all my big blades quite a while ago.

Which ones have you used.

I would hate to argue with you guys but firefighters are in the woods all the time fighting forest fires.

A better arguement would be that lumberjacks used axes and not long blades to fell wood, however no one is contending that point.

...have you ever tried to break a car window with a big knife?

Yes, it breaks fairly easy. I even cut the windshield out of a bus with one.

A knife will never, I repeat, never have the hammer power of a hatchet.

This isn't actually a trivial arguement. Consider that you can take a knife and move some of the mass from the point on the blade where you want it to impact and put it in the pommel and the knife can be more powerful for cutting. You have to consider how the long blade moves because you don't swing them like axes, they cut more with speed and are influenced a lot by rotational properties.

-Cliff

 

[locomike]

I would hate to argue with you guys but firefighters are in the woods all the time fighting forest fires.

Lets not forget we have a specialty group called smoke jumpers and here is a picture of their tools

Vivi, have you ever tried to break a car window with a big knife? I have and I assure you it is not as easy as it may sound.

A knife will never, I repeat, never have the hammer power of a hatchet.

Alan

Wildland/forrest firefighters in my area (we have a lot of of fires every summer) don't carry axes or hatchets. They carry pulaskis and Stihls. The axe end of the pulaski is not to chop wood, but rather to cut roots while digging fire lines. If they need trees cut, they call the sawyer. The tools a firefighter uses are for their job, not recreational camping.

I prefer large knives but that is mainly because that is what I have the most experience with.

 

[GibsonFan]

I would like to add, I carry hatchet and small fixed blade in every outdoor situation. Now you know of at least one person who does. Dirttime Dude is another who carries a hatchet with him all the time. that is two.
Alan

Count me as three. Sort of. Well, about half the time I carry a 'hawk and small knife... many times I carry a big honkin' bowie and a small knife. Often the 'hawk stays in camp by the firepit and the bowie comes with me on hikes... Honestly it just depends on what I feel like that day. I'm sure I could make do with any one of the three but I like having slightly specialized tools for big or small jobs.

If it came to a fight, the bowie is my choice, hands down.

 

[Ravaillac]

As I said the main if not only drawback I see to an axe compared to camp knife is weight and bulk. There are not many hatchet in the size/weight range of camp knives.
Maybe japanese hatchets... which look a lot like camp knife, and even more like cleavers.

I'd say it depends more on the amount of chopping you consider necessary for survival/wilderness/your planned activity, but I still can't see any serious advantage to long edge (except brush cleaning, which makes it mandatory in some environnrments: machetes in jungle...).

 

[Ravaillac]

This is my own assertian based on observances plus my own common sense tells me that a machete + a biggish fixed blade is all I would want or need to get any given job done in any climate I may need to do it in ...

While I could indulge in a machete or a "large knife" as outdoor tools, having both seams redundant to me.

 

[Tikirocker]

While I could indulge in a machete or a "large knife" as outdoor tools, having both seams redundant to me.

As I said earlier if I was stuck in the bush with ONLY one then I would always take the biggish tusker knife - if I had the option, in a survivalist/wilderness situation, I'd take both since the weight of a machete is virtually negligable. The bottom line for me is that I am always thinking in terms of survival and not usually recreational camping.

 

[Karl5]

A better arguement would be that lumberjacks used axes and not long blades to fell wood, however no one is contending that point.

I am. That's exactly the point I wanted to make to this thread.
The argument against that is of course that this is valid for lumberjacks, chopping down trees but not brush, but not for general use-people. But I still think it's a very valid point.

Generally, however, I agree with the voices here that state "use the right tool for the right job". There is no, repeat no, tool that will do all of the jobs better than any other tool!! Sometimes a hatchet/axe will be the best tool, sometimes a machete/large blade. It all depends on where you are, and what job needs to be done.
For instance: When I did my army service, we used large blades to cut brush. When we needed wood for fire, we used axes.

Personally, for my needs and where I'm going, I prefer a hatchet + a small knife. I've found it better than carrying a large blade only (yup, tried that too).

Just my 0.02...

/ Karl