Have not yet received my Colt knives, but already crushing on this Colt Hawkbill...

I hate you guys. I had written off the Colt brand years ago. These look like pretty nice knives. Yes, I know they are Chinese manufacture.
 
I believe the previous licensee of the Colt name for knives was United Cutlery... where now it's Smokey Mountain Knife Works (SMKW). SMKW is also the importers and owners of the Rough Rider knives. It seems, judging by the similar quality construction, that SMKW has the same people in China making both the RR and Colt branded knives for them. I don't recollect ever liking anything that United Cutlery would do on patterns. They just did nothing for me. The Colt brand now being done for the SMKW people, seems to be a big improvement... imo :)
 
Call me a skeptic. But United Cutlery has a long relationship with SMKW. I doubt you would ever know who made the knives. I am not so sure about Rough Rider either. Frost Cutlery could easily have the Rough Riders manufactured at the same plants that make their knives. Jim Frost and SMKW are somewhat connected in the sense that SMKW was started by Jim Parker's brother and probably with the financial backing of brother Jim Parker. Bill Frost is deceased now, but Parker and Frost used to hang. Two different companies, but they essentially both used some of the same manufacturing and marketing approaches to their knives. The difference is that the Frosts never labeled their knives something they weren't.

The old National Knife Museum used to be in Chattanooga. It was started by Jim Parker. The stuff has been moved to the SMKW store and the old museum has been remodeled into an office building.

I did some searching and the searches confirm that Rough Rider is owned by SMKW. The search also yielded the info that SMKW also owns Blue Ridge Knives which I didn't know. I would be interested to know more about the relationships.
 
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Chatting with a SMKW vendor/reseller, he told me that different knives within ANY overseas brand are made by different jobbers and contractors to supply knives. Some use parts and pieces manufactured to their specifications in assembling their knives and some don't make anything on their knives at all anymore. According to him, the knives badged as needed to fill the orders. I had this same conversation with Mike Latham a year ago when he sold me an excellent Jim Bowie/Eye brand knife, not made by them at all, but Carl Olbertz under contract to them. Chinese knives are no different.

We talked specifically about RR and Colt. While Colt has small differences in some of their designs, some of the models he had were identical to other Pacific Rim offerings he had on the table, less the better fit and finish. He also showed me identical knives from RR, Boker (Chinese line), and some lesser known Pacific Rim brands. As with any manufacturing process, one can specify the level of fit, finish, polish and performance you will accept in the final manufactured product. It seems to me that Colt raised the bar just a bit over the others.

According to him, as Boker is doing openly now, many of the different tasks of knife making are contracted out, each aspect and part coming from a different place depending on the manufacturer and model. So blades stamped in one factory (ever notice how many Turkish clip medium stockmans look alike?) are shipped to another factory to be assembled with liners and springs from another. Boker has knives made all over the world now under its name and badge. Truly, a global market approach.

This reminded me of the discussion that has gone on over the last couple of years on the Spyderco forum about the origins of some of their more economic lines. If I recall correctly, Mr. Glesser has two different factories he works with to get what he wants under the Spyderco logo. (Apologies to the Spyderco guys if I got that wrong).

When final, finished products are put out to bid the entity is usually interested only in the quality of the final product, not how it got to his price point. As with my contracting tools, I honestly have no idea who makes my saws, drills, etc., anymore as they are only required to disclose so much as the country of origin. But when I get a new switch for a wood router that has a plate riveted on it that says "made in Taiwan" and the only maker of that switch is in Mexico (and it fits three other brand name routers) I always remind myself how segmented all of manufacturing is these days.

Robert
 
It's a tangled web. I have always believed that United Cutlery and SMKW were in fact owned by the same entity for all practical purposes. The locations alone suggest the relationship. Why Blue Ridge Knives (a distributor of many brands) is in Marion VA, I have no idea. Maybe that is where Ken Werner is from?

But I agree that the company ordering the knives is focused on the end product and where and how the products get manufacted and assembled makes no difference to them.

I would assume that Blue Ridge Knives is probably the only distributor of Rough Rider knives. That makes them essentially a SMKW product. I usually thnk of SMKW as a store (retailer), not a manufacturer. But perhaps it makes little difference really. I just like to understand the general linkage between companies.

Added: Taylor is another one. Started by Stewart Taylor and owns the Schrade and Smith & Wesson trademarks. They happen to be in Kingsport TN which is not so far from Sevierville TN (SMKW), Chattanooga TN (Frost), and Blue Ridge (Marion VA).
 
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Enablers? Naw, you guys just plain suck. :D Because of this thread I just had to go cruise the bay to see what was coming to a close and priced cheap enough. I just ended up winning this (image is from listing and for editorial purpose only):

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A Colt 175th Anniversary Black Stag Barlow.

Bad part I came across the Colt interpretation of the Skean Dhu full tang with Burl Wood sheath and scales. Looks like it would make a great pocket carry fixed blade.

Enablers my ...... I expect next someone will just say, "Here! Let me hold your beer!" then smile knowing what's coming next.

Bad, bad, bad influence. Spending money on knives I need to get the proper belts and compounds for the Harbor Freight 1x30 sander I just ordered and it ain't intended for sanding.

Guns & knives. I can stay away for a few years, but it's always just a matter of time before a little twitch here, a tick there, a "I think I'll just check in at the forums, read a few pages, see what's going on...." Yeah, we know where that always goes.

Like a few others I'd pretty much written off Colt and S&W as junk anymore. Looking at what you guys have posted and commented on, I decided to take a chance. Seems they've stepped it up a little. Hope that's true.
 
I got a Colt Teardrop Jack today, I'm really impressed. I don't have that much experience with traditionals, my old Buck 301 from high school, a scout knife and a few SAKs.
But I've owned a bunch of fixed blades and "one handers", and I recently purchased 3 Rough Riders. Now, the RRs are good (at least 2 out of 3), but this Colt is definitely better.

It weighs 109 grams, or 3.85 oz. - definitely solid. Comes in a nice gift box too. With the bone stag handles, it's 17mm or .73 in. thick. A couple things I didn't know about this knife,
the main blade and spring are thicker than the pen, which is a nice delicate little blade. It also has half stops, my first experience with these. The pulls are firm, and with the half stops,
inspires confidence that the blades won't close on my fingers. The Scales look great - they do have the lines others have mentioned - but you have to look close. Overal fit and finish is great,
the back of the knife and the fit of the scales have no gaps. All the RR family blades have been sharp - sharp enough to push cut thin paper - no complaints there.

The Colt eems to be polished more completely, none of the RRs were perfect, but it's hard to find any imperfections on this knife. If I was being picky, the larger, central pin through the scales is not flush
but they are irregular in this area, I don't know if anyone could have done better. The large "C" on the bolsters is less noticeable than I though, doesn't bother me. One thing I've noticed about
all the RR family knives I own - the blades exhibit a fine polish, but there is a "haze" along the cutting edge, that runs back about 3/16", as if this are wasn't polished quite as much. Overall
very pleased, it's really a pleasure to use. Kind of curious - the main blade is marked "Quality since 1836" with a very small "China" underneath!
 
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That haze you see is, I believe, the result of a slight polishing the blades receive after they have been sharpened. I have that not only on my RR & Colt knives, but on a couple of American made Camillus knives. Not a defect, just part of it's final production process. As for the 1836 date, that is for the Colt company's beginning, not for the company that is licensed to make these knives under the Colt name :)

Congrats on the Colt knife and it being a positive experience :)
 
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Just went out to the mailbox and that Colt Barlow I mentioned above was in there. Wow! Came in the tin and sleeve. I gotta say for a few pennies under $17.50 to the door it's a wonderful thing. If you forget the country of origin and the fact it's 440A which isn't bad, just not 440C, and just laid it out with the usual assortment of Case and similar knives I don't think anyone would blink at it being priced in the $35-50 actual price range. I'm glad its not.

I compared it to some of my other knives like the Forum Easy Open, a S&M or two, and an old pre-USA marked Case XX Barlow (thanks again, Charlie!). It's pretty close to the newer, but higher end, common production knives only giving up a tiny bit to them in things like scale to bolster fit or spring fit on the back. Understand though I'm talking about baby hair and finer differences, not gaps.

When you compare any of the knives be they the higher end or the Colt to that old and vintage Case Barlow you see how a knife used to be made. Many decades old that pre-USA tang stamped Case is precision fit and amazing when you look really close at the details.

Okay, I'm waxing a bit heavy on this inexpensive, but very attractive looking and feeling knife. Most likely because I've snubbed the Colt line in the past as being junk wanna be stuff hyping off the name. I know from past experience that the S&W line of knives was pretty much that. Mediocre comes to mind. But, having read some of the comments on the more recent Colt line here I decided to check it out. I figured it would be pretty if nothing else.

Oh, but does it cut. In a word, yes. Not a razor out of the package, then I find few knives that really are. I was also speaking with a fellow yesterday who not only does high level knife sharpening, but also sells knives along with his sharpening business. He was telling me about the Zero Tolerance line of moderns that are well designed and made of premium materials and cost in the triple digits and come with crappy edges. Uneven bevels, poor blade geometry, just bad and needing reprofiling to get up to par. Yet this sub-$20 knife is ground pretty well. Not perfect, but on par with other common production Case and Queens. The small spear blade has some small burrs that catch on newsprint, but still slides right through stiff leather. The tastefully etched main blade took just a few swipes on bare leather and it cleanly slices newsprint and parts stiff leather like it's a favorite food.

It's a nice looking knife that feels good in the hand, not heavy and blocky. This may sound weird to some and make sense to others, but here goes. It has an American knife feel and look to it. Where the RR comes close it still has a subtle not quite feel that is nothing to do about quality, but those subtle things I have mentioned before. The Colt has those.

Now I'm looking forward to the Colt Black Stag Congress that's on its way.
 
As far as I can tell, things manufactured in China are sort of manufactured by a collective, say the People's Knife Works #2. So there will be a lot of similarities regardless of the "orderer." The key seems to be the QC that the orderer demands. Rough Riders are pretty darn good, the Chinese Bucks seem to be a hair better, and the Colts a hair better still. I think Frost kicked this off with the Steel Warriors. The Chinese dreck that we are all familiar with is probably coming from the same factories.
 
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