Have your eyes ever swelled shut or have you broke out in a horrible rash?????

K

KFU

Part Time Knifemaker, Moderator
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Sep 10, 2007
Messages
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Well, Ive run into a little snag. About a month ago I woke up one morning and both my eyes were swelled shut. I went to the doctor and they said it was an allergic reaction to something. I figured it was nothing and slammed Benadryl for three days and it went away. A week later the same thing happened so I started doing some research and read about people with similar symptoms that were allergic to Cocobolo. I had been using it a lot so I assumed that was it. My beautiful wife spent an entire day taking everything out of the shop, cleaning it off, wiped down the walls, etc. I gave all my Cocobolo away to a buddy so I was good to go! This time it lasted a couple days longer and was more severe. Well Friday night I got home from work and wanted to get some handles glued up so I could finish them over the weekend. Saturday morning I woke up for work and damned if my right eye was swollen and this time I had a rash, almost blisters, on both of my hands. Turns out I am allergic to epoxy. The specialist I went to said everyone is allergic to epoxy, it just takes different timeframes to show symptoms. I had ordered West Coast Gflex a month ago and that's what caused it. I had previously been using the epoxy from USA Knifemakers and never had an issue. I don't know if its just the gflex or if I will now have an issue with all epoxies. I will say that at first I was not overly cautious when using it. I wore latex gloves and always wear a respirator when Im in the shop. Ive learned that you pretty much are screwed no matter what precautions you take. The gases will penetrate latex, stay in the air for a week, and even cured epoxy isn't totally cured. Im now dealing with an ever spreading rash that itches like crap and is starting to blister up and Eyelids that will eventually crack open. It might be the end to my short knifemaking career. Be safe when using this stuff guys and keep your eyes open for the symptoms.
 
That's terrible! I was going to suggest wearing gloves, but from what you say that wouldn't help. Um, you could make takedowns exclusively from now on? Patrice would like that.

You should probably try going to another epoxy to see if the problem persists. Perhaps Gflex has got a certain ingredient that affects you.
 
Latex gloves aren't that good at keeping out stuff either.

(and maybe it's the latex you're allergic to)


Try the blue Nitrile gloves, they're more expensive but more resistant to organic solvents.
 
that sucks Chris .I hope you find a solution/alternative. I'm allergic to bee stings . I got stung in the face 3 times . my face blew up eyes swelled shut. it was pretty terrible.hope it works out bud.
 
Thats really bad. I hope you find some solution that will allow you to continue making knives, whether that be a different glue or using screws to attach the handle to the blade or something else.

Brian
 
that does suck but on the other side you could avoid the epoxy all together by making takedowns or folders
 
Wow that sucks :(

If it makes you feel better I'm very allergic to poison ivy and used to be a forester. Talk about job hazards...

Just make knives with removable scales. It can be a marketing point, you know, there are people who like to be able to swap scales.
 
The blue Nitrile gloves are the way to go. I use them in the body shop all of the time when using chemicals and solvents. They can be a bit expensive but they are worth the cost.
 
That's awful, KFU!
Do antihistimines help control the reaction at all?

-Daizee
 
Lucky you were able to narrow down the problem to epoxy in short order, as there are many allergic triggers in the shop. Go back to epoxies that didn't bother you, and now you can ask your buddy for your Cocobolo back.
 
Sorry to hear about your allergy to epoxy - that is fairly common in the boatbuilding industry. Since the epoxy is both a sealant and an adhesive you need a substitute for both. Try using Corby bolts for the adhesive and 3M 5200 for the sealant. 3M 5200 has excellent bonding strength and is completely waterproof. It's messy but can be cleaned off with acetone before it sets up. Good luck.
Tim
 
Like many of the materials we use in a knife shop, epoxy can be hazardous. Oily exotic woods, synthetic material like G-10, solvents, dusts, and epoxies; all pose real concerns.

For many of us, knifemaking is a pleasurable hobby, and we don't pay the attention to safety that we should, starting with thorough review of safety information.

Some few are allergic to epoxies, all can become sensitized, especially to hardeners. Few persons, once sensitized, can resume epoxy use.

A few precautions can reduce problems.

1) Keep the epoxy in the mixing pot and on the part. Don't wallow in it, get it on your clothes, or on your skin.

2)It's best to use nitrile gloves when working with epoxy. Latex poses it's own hazards of sensitivity, including to the powders commonly found in latex gloves.

3) Never use a solvent to clean epoxy off your skin if you do get it on you. Solvents dry the skin, leaving micro-cracks that invite sensitizing, as well as fungus invasion.

4) Waterless cream cleansers, such as G0-JO, which have lanolin or aloe, are best for washing up, or removing epoxy from skin, but no soap or cleanser with pumice should ever be used, due to previously mentioned micro-cracking and scratching.

5) Avoid sanding un-cured epoxy, and avoid breathing epoxy sanding dust in any case.

6) Take special care to avoid wiping epoxy or epoxy dust in eyes, nose, or mouth.

These simple precautions can help prevent the serious problems like this thread addresses.

I've used epoxy almost daily for some 40 years, in my boatbuilding days by the gallon, without coming to anything but mental anguish, but I've seen others have exactly the same reactions described here.

This post closely follows the short lecture I used to give all new hires in the boat-shop, minus the special four-letter emphatic terms.

Hope this adds something to the discussion; safety is a much neglected subject. We're all trying to have fun, but it's a dangerous world out there.

John
 
One of my crafts is building split cane custom bamboo flyrods and we have run into the epoxy allergy many times with makers. We often are often up to our elbows in the stuff on glue up.

What many have done is gone to Gorilla Glue and other adhesives. If you look around you just might find an alternative. I have used Pliobond for years for the glue up of nickel silver ferrules to cane and so have many others. There are a few tricks to using it but it holds like a vise grip and gets stronger with age and is resistant to expansion and contraction as well as vibration.

You will be able to find something... glue is not a deal breaker in knifemaking ;)
 
I barely started to have some bad reaction to cocobolo. Of course I stoped using it. Along the same lines, I was making some jewellery with some mallachite, and boy did that make me sick ! It actually caused me, over a short period of time, to become nauseated which, perhaps, saved me from being more sick. Frank
 
Thanks for posting this Chris! I bet it was almost as painful as the allergic reactions you're having. I too worry about my sensitization to materials. The ignorant stuff I've done over the years haven't helped either. Years of grinding, sanding and polishing without protection in the '70s and '80s didn't help. Years of exposure to volatile substances, fumes, vapors, smokes...baugh! When your young you feel immortal, because things don't seem to effect you (then). There does seem to be an accumulative effect for some of this stuff though. I went through a phase a few years back where I could barely run my chain saw because all of a sudden I was reacting poorly to gasoline fumes. Dang, I practically drank the stuff when I was a kid.

In addition to the excellent suggestions folks have made thus far...

What kind of atmospheric conditioning do you have in your shop? A comprehensive particulate dust removal system, as well as personal respirator equipment, should probably be the first things recommended when folks come here asking what equipment they should begin with. I have acquired, but not developed much comfort with yet, a full sealed face mask positively pressured with a fan and multi-stage filters. I had to do this, because my eyes were getting adversely effected by grinding, even more so than my respiratory system. I haven't looked into yet the whole realm of air pollution scrubbers, but know there are an array of systems out there designed to help address the quality of air in shop and industrial environments.

One more thought, what kind of hygiene options do you have in your shop? It may seem overkill, but having access to a full bathroom with shower while working in the shop can really help. I knew a guy who maintained a separate little locker like shed with a bathroom, bath, shower, sinks and laundry. He'd stop there before going into the shop and change into his work clothes. When he was done working he'd shower and change there before going home. His work clothes never entered his home. He laundered them there.

Good luck with sorting this all out. I wish you the best in your recovery. My heart goes out to you.

Aloha, Phil

PS – John, THANKS for such a great post with so many excellent tips!
 
There's an additional issue I've never seen addressed on BF, that also a side point here.

We all (should) understand the need to use an efficient system to keep dust out of our lungs, epoxy and otherwise. Many use cartridge respirators, or other mask type filter systems.

Any system you breathe into and through needs to be broken down, washed with soap and water, and dried daily, or should be a disposable, one-use mask specifically designed for grinding and sanding such as the 3-M 8511. ( Nuisance filters, even 3-m type, are not enough)

The warm, moist crevices of a mask system that a person has been breathing into all day become a perfect biology experiment if left over night without serious cleaning.

You don't want to breed a person specific fungus and breathe that into your nose, mouth and lungs.

Believe me on this one!

John
 
Thanks Chris, now you got me thinking. I started making knives in March of 2012. In May, after making a dozen knives with different woods and micarta, all epoxied. I was diagnosed as a mystery. Swollen Lymph Nodes and non ca-seating granulomas of the skeletal system. I was diagnosed with Lymphoma, then bone cancer and finally Sarcoidosis. I was treated with Steroids for 7 weeks and after zero results the doctors decided it wasn't Sarcoid. They say I'm still a mystery. Maybe knife making is hazardous to my health. Has anybody had similar symptoms?
 
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