having a problem with vulcanized liner material

A

andrewfinnie13

Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
364
hello,
I recently decided to try and just peen a pair of g-10 scales with red liners on to me latest knife without any sort of epoxy at all. it turned out great until I started to finish hand sanding. I used water and worked up my grits to 800.
I finished one side and low and behold. I noticed that the red volconized(sp)
liners that I installed are swelling when wet. needless to say I was a little pissed. I let that slide and went on to polishing the handle scaled with black and then white compound with a microfiber hand towel. after I finished one side , I noticed a build up of compound between the tang and g-10 scales. the freaken liners shrank under heat! WTF???!!! I wasnt building up alot of heat, just enough to warm the g-10 up a bit. I am not impressed.sooooo


has anyone ever had/expierenced this problem before???

thanks

Andy
 
andrewfinnie13 said:
hello,

I finished one side and low and behold. I noticed that the red vulcanized liners that I installed are swelling when wet.
Click to expand...

It's common enough that thin coloured G10 is being sold and used as liners
Lots of pretty colours and thickness to choose from.

http://www.alphaknifesupply.com/micarta.htm


And use some good epoxy.
When you hear that little voice, stop and fix what is nagging you.
It wont ever get better.
 
12345678910 said:
It's common enough that thin coloured G10 is being sold and used as liners
Lots of pretty colours and thickness to choose from.

http://www.alphaknifesupply.com/micarta.htm


And use some good epoxy.
When you hear that little voice, stop and fix what is nagging you.
It wont ever get better.
Click to expand...

I know I needed to stop and fix the problem. but the shop that I do most of my work at is not accessable. I am such a newb that I decided that ide use this as a experiment. different grits of sand paper on the finish for the handle,a couple different buffing compounds and a new way to secure the handle. thats really what the first five or six knives have ended up being.
I have used the same vulcanized liners in a different knife but I used epoxy on that one. so using the vulcanized liners on the new knife without epoxy didnt pop up as it being a problem until.... but I thought it was wierd and slightly odd that vulcanized paper would expand and contract with water and heat. thought the whole reason for vulcanizing paper is to make is tough and resistant to outside substances.
 
andrewfinnie13 said:
but I thought it was wierd and slightly odd that vulcanized paper would expand and contract with water and heat. thought the whole reason for vulcanizing paper is to make is tough and resistant to outside substances.
Click to expand...

I would assume thats normal...it is paper after all
 
Ugh, I hate the stuff these days. I used to use it till I had to do a repair on a customer's knife. It was embarrassing. Like 12345 said, I rock the thin G10. Along with the spacer change I purchased premium glue after researching the glue wars threads.
 
Like the others said, vulcanized fiber material is really susceptible to changes in humidity. I've had pieces of it curl up like a frightened puppy just sitting in the shop. There are tons of horror stories similar to yours.

I read a post from a very reputable maker, who describes how he clamps his vulcanized fiber while in storage and puts the assembled handles in a dehydrator while glued-up, to prevent this. I believe him when he says this is effective, but I think it's way too much extra work. Besides, I don't see how that would prevent the stuff from absorbing/losing moisture in the future.

The good news is, G10 is available in thin pieces and various colors. It's helluva lot less likely to shrink/swell etc and the colors are much brighter. Shop around.
 
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That does seem like a lot of work. I wonder what properties about the paper make him use that over the G10 besides being a helluva lot easier to cut? When sanded and lightly buffed, you cannot see the grain on the G10 spacer (at least the black G10 that is).

You know not too many other knifemaking supply joints carry the thin G10, guess a lot of folks still use the paper. I thought that a bunch of people stopped using the paper and it was old news, not talked about till somebody new brings it up and then a bunch of folks chime in to say yea, I don't use the stuff anymore. I dunno. Just thinking out loud. Figured more supply sites would carry the thin G10.
 
You can run a bead of super glue around the spacers, sand it flush, and they won't absorb moisture.
 
james terrio said:
Like the others said, vulcanized fiber material is really susceptible to changes in humidity. I've had pieces of it curl up like a frightened puppy just sitting in the shop. There are tons of horror stories similar to yours.

I read a post from a very reputable maker, who describes how he clamps his vulcanized fiber while in storage and puts the assembled handles in a dehydrator while glued-up, to prevent this. I believe him when he says this is effective, but I think it's way too much extra work. Besides, I don't see how that would prevent the stuff from absorbing/losing moisture in the future.

The good news is, G10 is available in thin pieces and various colors. It's helluva lot less likely to shrink/swell etc and the colors are much brighter. Shop around.
Click to expand...

Thanks sir. I guess Ill have to buy some of that G-10.. Ive seen so many makers post knives on here with spacer material that I thought it was widely used stuff. never heard anything bad about the vulcanized paper either.

thanks everyone
 
I've totaly switched to micarta and g-10 liners. Vulcanized fiber is not appropriate for knife handles.
 
I don't like the vulcanized liner material because it is not thick enough, regardless of the other horror stories told here. I've looked at the 1/8" G10 and micarta and thought that either of them would make a good substitute for the vulcanized material as several of you are saying. This is all fine and good if you can charge it back to a customer but as an amateur it is pretty expensive.

I've tried to find the whitest wood to use as white spacer material. The best I've found is tan. Are there any low cost alternatives?

LonePine
AKA Paul Meske, Wisconsin
 
As long as the particular plastic bonds with the epoxy you use*, heck yeah it would make a good spacer.

*Some plastics just don't... I use lids from various plastic butter/cream cheese etc. tubs to mix epoxy, specifically because the epoxy doesn't bond to it and can be peeled right off after it hardens.
 
It's not a concern for me. I use peened pins.
Any trophy shop will have multi and single color plastics that work well as spacers.
I think G10/G11 is overkill.
 
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