Hawk/Hatchet vs kukri

[GUN SNOB]

IMO a blade isn't a necessity for camping. Is it for fires? Are fires a necessity? I cook with a little stove. I like fires for pleasure at night, and for that my 4" mora is largely a convenience item for making fires, for shavings and kindling .... maybe opening food packages too. Without my little knife fire building would be a PITA but it would get done, with some delay. If it's wet or otherwise weather is bad, I probably would be in tent.... again fire a non-issue. When I camp over 3000 ft elevation in Wa state, fires arent a good idea anyhow. If we're talking about hypothetical survival/emergency situations I wouldnt want my warmth/life to be contingent on a fire... there are other ways to keep warm. In my defense I'm just a product of my learning.

Ok, different style of camping, and you carry a 4 inch Mora. From your first post it sounded like you were talking about no blade when camping. I can't get by with out a knife at the house.

For the un experienced lessons in even a small knife can be helpful. Not just how much you can do with a small knife but more important what you can't do with it.

For an extended stay on a primitive sight with a group of people I would expect to process wood for fire. Depending on the size of the group and length of the stay this could be quight a bit of wood. Yes I have processed fire wood with out a knife. I have also found when camping with people who only carry a SAK or what I would think of as a minimal knife they want to use my larger knife/hatchet as much or more than I do. They just don't want to buy or carry it. (not saying you are like that)

I would probably carry both (at least to base camp) but I already own them. If I could only have one I would lean to the HI Kukri for its versatility and durability.

 

[pullrich]

For an extended stay on a primitive sight with a group of people I would expect to process wood for fire. Depending on the size of the group and length of the stay this could be quight a bit of wood. .

Agree on the points you just made and this one in particular makes sense.
Big group = more fires = more need for wood and wood processing.

There is also the question of where this camping is occurring and wood availability. I'm going off about not needing big blades in part because my camping has been in the pacific northwest and boundary waters of minnesota, terrain that is rich in wood of all sizes from tinder to kindling to larger broken logs, all within reach and often bone dry. Not often a need for processing the wood. I shouldnt assume that's the case everywhere.

 

[GUN SNOB]

Agree on the points you just made and this one in particular makes sense.
Big group = more fires = more need for wood and wood processing.

There is also the question of where this camping is occurring and wood availability. I'm going off about not needing big blades in part because my camping has been in the pacific northwest and boundary waters of minnesota, terrain that is rich in wood of all sizes from tinder to kindling to larger broken logs, all within reach and often bone dry. Not often a need for processing the wood. I shouldnt assume that's the case everywhere.

And I shouldn't assume that because I carry a chopper every one needs one. I probably pack a little heaver than I must for some things.

One of the things I like about the forms is we all get a insight in to how others do things and it allows me to try applying it to my situation.

Yes how available is wood. How will chores be divided among the group. Will there be "off sight support personnel' or sight set up prior to the group arrival. What if any are the rules or guide lines for the camp. Is there a recomended packing list......

With what little I know of the set up I would plan to fend for my own and expect a need to provide support to some of the 'Guest'. With a established base camp I would rather have a little extra and lighten my daily load than come up short of what I might need.

 

[dogstar]

I don't have much experience, but when I pick up a tomahawk, I say "cool." When I pick up a hatchet, I say "tool."

With enough knowledge and experience, you can get all three items you mentioned to serve your needs.

 

[Nixelplix]

I would also consider the impression you want to make with the campers. The Khukri will be more impressive, while a 'hawk seems a little more people-friendly.

edited to add that the Khukri will be heavier than the 'hawk as well

 

[Cpl Punishment]

Not necessarily.

A 20" Sirupate will weigh close to what a Trail Hawk weighs.

 

[Aimless]

Are you sure the people running the camp are going to be cool with you having a kukri or tomahawk? It's been many many many years since I was a camp counselor, but the camps were mostly run by teachers (no surprise) who were kind of libtardish. A regular hatchet might be a smarter idea.

 

[pullrich]

Good question aimless, and I'll add that it might not even be a liberal-conservative thing. The scout leaders that I was with as a youth were military and conservative politically and if you showed up with an axe or big blade for a backpacking trip, they'd laugh ..... then send you back to the trucks to put it away.

 

[wildmanh]

Not necessarily.

A 20" Sirupate will weigh close to what a Trail Hawk weighs.

My trail hawk is a little lighter then my 20" Sirupati. Good combo, though I do prefer my French style hawk from Great River forge. It has more cutting area and a little heavier head. Good stuff either way.

IMO The cold steel Pipe hawk would make a great camp tool that should be acceptible to most people. If that is a concern.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

My trail hawk is a little lighter then my 20" Sirupati. Good combo, though I do prefer my French style hawk from Great River forge. It has more cutting area and a little heavier head. Good stuff either way.

IMO The cold steel Pipe hawk would make a great camp tool that should be acceptible to most people. If that is a concern.

My Vec hawk made from a trail hawk head on his composite haft (which is MUCH lighter than the wood ones) weighs just under 22 oz. My 20" Sirupate I bought from Yangdu a few months ago runs at 23.5 oz. Technically, yes, it's heavier, but that's about the weigh of a wood hafted Trail Hawk.

I use the TH as a comparison, because most people here either have one or have used one and know its weight.

Good question aimless, and I'll add that it might not even be a liberal-conservative thing. The scout leaders that I was with as a youth were military and conservative politically and if you showed up with an axe or big blade for a backpacking trip, they'd laugh ..... then send you back to the trucks to put it away.

Which is funny to me, because it was a big thing to get your "Toting chip" when I was a Scout, and axemanship was a highly sought after skill, and I don't know anyone who didn't carry a hatchet once getting the chip.

I suspect you may be seeing a regional-culture thing, more than anything.

And, you know, why not bring an axe or kukri to camp? He can teach skills to the kids (where else but camp will they learn them?) and they can practice in a controlled environment. Our church group does a lot of knife and axe work when we do campouts because most of the kids don't have anywhere else to do it. They are always entranced by my kukri work as well. And yes, I got laughed at for bringing the kukri --- once. Once they saw what it could do and that it wasn't just a big knife, it got respect. Everyone also acknowledged that the Nepali had a good thing going with the kukri a small knife and sharpening steel being all part of the package.

 

[pullrich]

Which is funny to me, because it was a big thing to get your "Toting chip" when I was a Scout, and axemanship was a highly sought after skill, and I don't know anyone who didn't carry a hatchet once getting the chip..

For us the 'totin chip' was a big deal just for summer camp, and then only because to get some merit badges or engage in certain activities you needed to use an axe and other wood processing tools, which required totin chip. The badges and activities in question that I recall were those involving construction of camping 'devices' from saplings and wood poles, like latrine seats, cooking pot tripods, drying racks, flag poles, rough tables, or whatever. I always found that stuff fun as a kid, but even at the time (late 70s, early 80s), our leaders thought it was pretty old-fashioned and bizarre, and constructions of that variety had no place in our backpacking trips. Maybe it was the start of the 'leave no trace' ethic, embraced even among this group of conservative leaders, but really I just think they thought there was no point to it.

Like you say, maybe its a regional/cultural thing. As I've already noted, firemaking where its permitted in the pacific northwest is an easy process without an axe so maybe that's a factor, too.

I'm with you (you all) on how it could be a good experience for these kids (?) to learn safe and effective ways to handle an axe and knife. Even if the skills are largely obsolete today it's fun!

 

[Cpl Punishment]

Then we'll just go with the cultural thing.

I was in the late 70s to mid 80os and the ideas were totally different than what you describe. We had plenty of wood and easy fire makings then, too, but to keep a skill you have to use it, so they encouraged use of the hatchet and axe even when absolutely necessary.

Unfortunately, the LNT philosophy has made things quite bad where I live now because a lot of "easy fire makings" don't get burned now, making large areas of the state into a tinderbox waiting for a good lightning strike (lightning capitol of the world and all), or careless cig butt thrown from the window). In years past, that stuff would have been burnt off in the controlled manner of outdoor activities.

So, in the misguided attempt to "save de planet" by not leaving those horrible little scorch marks, nature takes care of it the natural way -- FIRE. So much for the LNT theory. I guess our Scout leaders were old school: they practiced the "leave it better than you found it" philosophy, rather than "make it look like no one was here" theory.

 

[pullrich]

Interesting. I don't know much about the pros/cons of LNT when it comes to firebuilding. We always had fires, and big ones, so maybe I mis-represented the position of my leaders on that point. They were certainly against the unusual wood pole constructions that were popular at the time, meaning the latrine seats, racks, etc.

Axes or no axes, sounds like we both benefited from leaders that valued getting out there and doing stuff with the scouts. Plenty of others dont do much besides meet indoors.