Hawkbills, 1st Proto pics!

Nkcrp.jpg

Ok, don't hold back! I want to hear it all!! No sugar coating!!
These are my first prototypes of my Hawkbill project. If the name LiteWave has not been used yet, that's what I would like to call the tanto pointed one. The other one has been called Crows Nose by several people and I think it might stick! It has a curvy false edge on top that is not all that visible in the picture.
Both knives are 1/8" D2 and are 7 1/4" OAL with 3.5" blades. It's what I would call a full size neck knife. With the skeltonized handles, they hide well in their Kydex sheaths. The Tanto pointed one is VERY light for it's size due to the 17 holes!
Several people mentioned in my last posting of this topic and through Emails, that the Andre DeViliers Hawkbill folder was about the best using design around. After studying the picture and sketching up several dozen designs, it was hard to not come up with something that looked like his!! Trying to make a Hawkbill shape while keeping the point somewhat inline with the the handle is not easy. That's how the Tanto point version came about.
I am still doing a "Time Study" on the Tanto version. The Crows Nose should be in the $150 range depending on finish and optional handle materials.
The protos were just an excersise in ergonomics and reverse curve hollow grinding.
Please feel free to offer input, suggestions and criticisms!
Thanks,
Neil

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Just updated 10/31!! New Knives, New Pics!!!
http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Meeting/5520/index.html

 
Nice work! Like the D2 steel selection as that's a tough metal and can get a sharp edge on them.

Criticisms? Never like to comment too much on someone elses work, but you did ask, nothing major;

I'd allow the grind on the blades to go higher allowing it to slice better.

I'd drop the one finger groove, as that can limit the different grips you can apply to the handle, locks you into only a few, though as I said nothing major, it's just a prefence, maybe make it not as pronounce?

Other than that, I like the Hawkbill designs! Keep it up and keep us informed!

Thanks,
G2
 
K

King of Groove

Joined
Oct 11, 1999
Messages
107
I like them! I don't carry fixed blades but they look real nice. Gary is onto something with the dropping of the finger groove. But overall,they look really sweet.
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David Gardner
Vineland NJ

"If you fake the Funk, your nose will grow."
-W. Bootsy Collins


 
I am guessing they are double ground, not chisel ground? If there is no chisel grind, I like them! I'll take mine with plain black Micarta scales. What's the delivery time on them?
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Paranoia is only smart thinking
when everyone is out to get you.


 
I like hawks....
I like your hawks....
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Sinced you asked, these are first impression to the eye comments.
The thumb ramp looks abrupt, one would have to hold it to know for sure.
Also the holes seem to be a prefrence, other than styling is there a reason for the holes in the blade?


 
I really like the Hawk.....a higher grind would be great for the reasons put forward by others.
But the Tanto leaves me asking "why".
The reverse curve of a hawk speaks for itself.
But on a tanto, it strikes me as a styling exercise without a functional side.
Sorta like chisel grinds
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Maybe it would be better serrated ...then you could say it was made to cut rope, etc ?
Oh, yeah.....and ,if the grind is higher on the tanto, the blade holes would go ?
Please.
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BrianWE
ICQ #21525343




[This message has been edited by brian w edginton (edited 23 November 1999).]
 
I like them overall.
I'm not crazy about the holes in the tanto. It seems that even with them, you're still somewhat on the north side of a comfortable neck knife, wouldn't ya say?
As for the tanto, why such a harsh recurve(? or is it just the first curve... darn terminology). It seems like you're sort of hiding the primary edge this way.

Me gusta the hawkbill, just because I like that kind of knife. But it seems you could go farther with it. Right now, it seems somewaht halfway between a hawkbill and a wharncliffe (please do note my relative lack of experience). It seems like this knife doesn't take advantage of the full bite (for lack of a better word) of a hawkbill, but also doesn't give the stabbing ability of a wharncliffe.

I also agree about killing the finger groove. I like being able to pick how I hold my knives.


And grooves or something on the thumb ramp would be dandy.

It's my birthday today. 22. Can I have one?

Keep up the good work!

chizpuf
 
Neil,

I agree with dropping the finger groove, but the tanto is unique, I would have to use it to make a final decision. Let me know when they are ready. What are you going to use for handles? I have 1 Blackwood and another in the mail. I can’t wait to get my next one. Take care Neil



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Drac Noroc

"But if I ran the zoo,"
Said young Gerald McGrew,
"I'd make a few changes.
That's just what I'd do..." Seuss

AKTI # BA00013


 
Alright Doc. You ask for it!..............
It looks.....Good! But not without a bit of comments of course.
The Crows nose is nice. Close to finished i would say but like the rest commented, it could benefit from a higher grind due to the "slashing" nature of the Hawkbill. And since there's no tip or point for stabing, a drop handle would aid in the slashing action.
The tanto too is nice. Again, no holes or less/more spaced out holes would be better. Asthetically it's beautiful without the holes on the blade IMHO. And also i preffer a blade heavy ratio for this size. I know throwing of this knife is not recomended but if the need arrises and the weight is in front, it'll do just fine.
Just my two penny worth. Again, Good work!
 
Dr. Lathe, sweet designs! I like 'em a lot! They aren't my bag of tricks because they are more self-defense than utility, but they're sweet all the same! Names are cool, too, especially Crow's Nose! I like that a LOT! The handles look reminiscent of the Kasper neck knife that Crawford does. They look like great knives, and with the light weight and Kydex sheaths, they should be especially easy to carry.

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My Custom Kydex Sheath page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/kydex.html
Palmer College of Chiropractic
On Two Wheels
agocs_s@dd.palmer.edu
Madpoet (Mel Sorg, Jr.) Tribute page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/madpoet/main.html
 
What would happen if you left off the holes on the tanto but did an upper edge running right from the current tip position?

You'd have a "mini-Outsider"?

It's clear there's some "similarity of mindset" going on...with a 9.5" blade I had room to get a lot more radical.

outscan3.jpg


Jim (I designed it, Harald Moeller built it...)
 
Another thing: on the Tanto, you need a bit more lower guard, something like what the Hawk has. Reason is, on a stab something like a heavy jacket could get down into the first finger groove and "jam up", slowing or preventing fast extraction. Not good, especially since you've got the makings of a nice little stabber here. The "downward sloping" spine will slow stabbing power just a hair, you could get that back with a sharp upper edge - that would also do about as much weight loss as holes would provide without as much structural weakness, I think.

I actually like the grip as-is, with the exception of needing a bit more lower guard.

Jim
 
Really interesting looking. Since the stock is 1/8", did you radius the edges to make for a smoother gripping surface?

Any plans on offering a coated handle version?

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
I've been out of the house and I wish that I was here to answer the posts throughout the evening.
Let me address the Tanto version first. The main reason for the holes in the blade is 50% styling and 50% weight reduction. I wanted to make a full size neck knife that was as light as the smaller ones. Believe me, it would be easy enough to skip the holes! Making the grind lines higher is no problem either. I ground the blade on a 6" contact wheel. Grinding them on an 8" wheel would raise the grind lines and improve cutting ability for utility use. My first thoughts were to make it as strong as possible with the holes for weight reduction. Raising the grind line will remove quite a bit of material. The idea of the tanto point came from trying to design a hawkbill style that could STAB! Most of the Hawkbills I've seen curve down and are only good for slashing. Most of the input I received on my initial post and Emails on this topic discussed keeping the point somewhat inline with the handle. I like Jim's idea about the sharpened top edge, especially if I skip the blade holes. Adding more lower guard is something I considered as I was making it.....after I cut the blank out! I think I have to come up with a third design that is more traditional Hawkbill, lots of curve, drop handle, strictly a slasher!
As far as the Crows Nose, again, tried to get the Hawkbill function and style with somewhat of a stabbing ability. The small radius hollow grind leaves more material on the point for strength. I wanted a stronger point than what's on my Spyderco Civilians.
Any handle material is available. I was going to do the next ones in G10 or CF, keeping the handles as thin and as comfortable as possible. Screw assembled, Ti scales would be no problem either.
I have no personal preference for the finger notch! I want to make what people will like......
If I come up with a design with no notch people tell me the knife should have one for indexing and blade retention! If I make one with a notch, It's suggested that I remove it!!!!! I guess that's part of being a CUSTOM knife maker!
It will take everything into consideration and make more prototypes. As I refine and finalize the designs they will be added to my website.
I truly value and would like to thank all of you for your input and ideas.

Neil Blackwood

PS MDP: I thought Warren Thomas made CF folders??
Spark: I have not considered blade coatings but I have thought about breaking my tradition and working with materials that I would have to have heat treated by someone else, like BG42

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Just updated 10/31!! New Knives, New Pics!!!
http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Meeting/5520/index.html

 
Well, you asked for it....

They're both unusual blades, especially the upper one, and there's a market that buys anything that looks weird -- some people are going to love these knives.

There's another group of knife knuts that regards weird and unusual blade shapes with suspicion and asks whether the unusual shape serves any purpose and whether it could interfere with functionality.

You can't please everyone.
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The upper guard on the lower knife looks like it could interfere with bracing with the thumb on the spine in some positions and doesn't seem to serve any functional purpose. Eliminating the concavity ahead of it might improve function but would make the blade look less unusual (see paragraph four above).

The edge has a little curve to it but not much. I'm afraid the hawkbill enthusiasts are going to say that isn't enough curve to make it function like a hawkbill (or look like a hawkbill, for that matter) and the sheepsfoot and wharnecliffe enthusiasts are going to say the curve makes the edge harder to sharpen and they'd rather have a straight edge.

It's hard to say without trying it, though; that might be a very functional knife. It might serve some special purpose well -- I'm not sure what, but there might be something it does better than more conventional shapes.

The upper knife ... the holes in the blade limit its lifespan; that knife is not going to continue in use until it's sharpened down to a sliver. Most users probably won't care about that, though. Some people are going to look at that shape and those holes and think it's the wickedest, nastiest weapon they've ever seen, and whether they know a good weapon when they see one or not, their money is good....

Although the secondary point looks a little like the secondary point on Jim March's Outsider, this knife is much too light (and short) for that feature to be used in the way the secondary point on the Outsider was designed to be used. It's hard to think of anything this blade shape could be well-adapted to -- it certainly won't be useless; it's a blade and it'll cut, but for what kind of cutting could this shape have an advantage over other shapes?

If my thoughts on these knives aren't what you were hoping for, read paragraph four again -- and then go on to reading other people's reactions....
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-Cougar Allen :{)


[This message has been edited by Cougar Allen (edited 24 November 1999).]
 
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