Head to Head thread

OBX351

OBX351

Joined
Sep 29, 2014
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I've seen a LOT of knives on this forum and I wanted to get your opinions on Survive! Knives vs X. I own several Busses, LT Wrights and a few others that I have in the rotation along with my GSOs. Here they are:



The GSOs I use on a regular basis:



To kick this off my new 5.1 3v v Busse SJ TAC CG/S Jack:









Head to Head:

5.1 specs:
Steel: 3v
Overall Length: 10.93"
Blade Length: 5.75"
Blade Edge Length: 5.37"
Weight: 11.1 oz
Thickness: .185"
Handles: G10 or Canvas Micarta

Jack specs:
Steel: INFI
Overall Length: 11.25"
Blade Length: 6"
Blade Edge Length: 5.4"
Weight: < 11 oz
Thickness: .187"
Handles: Canvas Micarta

On paper these knives are pretty close. My initial impressions:

The Busse is longer in overall length, blade and cutting length than the 5.1. It has fixed canvas micarta handles and it is just a little bit lighter than the 5.1. Overall it's a very comfortable and easy to use knife. It feels like a big Ratmandu. Initially it didn't cut and carve very well but I had the edge reprofiled to about 20 degrees and now it cuts beautifully. In additional to the 3 lashing points in the handle the Jack also has two tie down points at the pommel and just before the choil. You can use the hole at the pommel for a lanyard. You can also create a paracord hand guard by lashing it to the hole behind the choil and the pommel. Lastly as a chopper I can get a 2 1/2 finger grip on the last contour of the Jack handle, however on the new 5.1 I can only get a 2 finger grip. Chopping this way without using a lanyard is dangerous. I added this to emphasize the differences in the handles and handle length.

The GSO feels beefier even though it's about the same weight, this is probably because it is shorter. The handles have more bolstering and are removable. It has a substantial lanyard hole just below the pommel and if you remove the handles it has 3 lashing holes. The lanyard opening is protected by the scales and the opening is much larger than the Jack. Nonetheless, I could use a lanyard on either knife having to grip the lanyard.

My long term impressions:

I've had the Jack for over 2 years and it has replaced my Ratmandu, not because it's better but I do prefer the longer blade. It's also the only Busse that I use on a regular basis. It sits well in the hand and it has a GREAT choil that is more comfortable to use than my 5.1 or 7/7. If you plan on getting one you'll want to reprofile the blade to make it a better cut and carving knife. And since I've had the blade profile changed it does a great job on wood working. I really like INFI because it very tough and easy to sharpen. I would be very happy with it as a single knife solution for camping or as a large EDC.

I've had my new 5.1 for less than a year but I've I've owned 5.1s for over 3 years. As with all GSOs it cuts, carves, batons and chops very well. It also could be a single knife solution for me for utility, camping and as a large EDC.

Both knives have been used heavily on many different tasks on different types of wood and both have performed well. INFI has a good reputation for a reason and Guy's 3V is becoming a rock star. I don't have a preference in the two steels.

If I had to choose between the two I would choose the new 5.1. It outperforms the Jack in all tasks and not by a huge margin but the beauty is in the details. Even though the two knives are about the same weight the 5.1 feels like it's a more powerful knife than the Jack especially when push cutting, chopping, batoning and long stroke cutting. The 5.1 is also more comfortable in hand after long use because of the bolstering and the contouring of the handles. I thought the same of the old 5.1 and the new 5.1 is even more comfortable. Lastly I like the larger flat pommel of the 5.1 to the window breaker/skull cracker of the Jack.

The Jack does surpass the 5.1 on one respect, the size of the choil. The choil is a little longer and fits my finger better. I tend to get a small cut on the side of my knuckle with my GSOs. At one point I had a callus there. Guy addressed this with the custom 5.1 that I bought from him last year however that knife is 20cv and I prefer 3v. This is the one thing I hope Guy changes when he releases the next batch of 5.1s.

The differences between the two knives are subtle and personal. If I was in the armed services in a combat zone and these knives were being used for defense as well as utility the comparison would be harder. The Jack would be a better weapon. It feels lighter and has a longer reach than the 5.1. You can also secure your hand to the knife with the above mentioned paracord hand guard. But I am not in the military and my use is mostly wood work. For these reasons the 5.1 is my favorite all around knife.

I'd like to compare my LT Wright GNS to the bushcrafter 4.5 when I get it. I'll probably do another head to head with an old 4.1 & Fallkinven F1.

I would love to read how your other knives compare to GSOs and your opinions of both. Or a discussion of why you think differently of my opinions.
 
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OBX, great idea! When my SOS LE comes in I'll do a throw down with my 4.1... got dinged yesterday so we'll see :)
 
Fallkniven F1 v original GSO 4.1

Fallkniven F1 Specs:
Overall Length:8.30"
Blade Length:3.80"
Blade Thickness:0.18"
Blade Material:VG-10
Hardness:59 RC
Blade Style: Drop Point
Blade Grind:Convex
Handle Length:4.50"
Handle Thickness:0.65"
Handle Material: Kraton
Weight:5.20 oz.

Original GSO 4.1 Specs:
Overall Length:8.95"
Blade Length:4.25"
Blade Thickness:0.16"
Blade Material: CPM-3V
Blade Style: Drop Point
Blade Grind:Flat
Finish:Stonewash
Edge Type:plain
Handle Length:4.70"
Handle Thickness:0.78"
Handle Material:Canvas Micarta
Weight:6.60 oz.







These 2 knives are pretty near and dear to me. I bought them months apart staring with the F1, because I couldn't find a 4.1. I eventually purchased a 4.1 from Guy when I visited him in PA to get my GSO 6 resharpened.

My initial reactions:

F1 - I loved the knife right out of the box. It was and still is one of the best wood carving knives I own. It held an edge for a long time and would easily throw big sparks off of it's spine. I was surprised by how much I liked the handles. They are small but they were designed to be used with gloves in cold weather. I found they were comfortable without gloves and don't cause any hots pots. The handles are permanently affixed to the knife. My F1 is VG10 and it's pretty easy to sharpen with a strop. The F1 has a really sharp 90 degree spine. It works well for scraping wood or throwing sparks. Unfortunately I do a lot of two handed push cutting and that spine tears up my left thumb.

GSO 4.1 - I wanted one of these as soon as I saw my first YouTube video of it. As I mentioned above I bought it from Guy on my first visit to his PA shop. I've used it a TON over the past 3+ years. I really didn't have a complaint except that I've worn smooth 2 sets of canvas micarta handles. The fire notch throws big sparks and the handles fit my XL hand very well. The 3v steel does as advertised, it's really tough and lasts a LONG time between sharpenings.

My long term impressions:

These are 2 fantastic knives that cut and carve very well. They are both very tough full tang knives. Initially the F1 was a much better carver of the 2 knives. But Guy reprofiled my 4.1 and now they are pretty close. The F1 is just a little bit better. Either knife would work as EDC or as part of a system for camping or survival. VG10 sharpens about 2x faster but doesn't hold an edge like 3v. Some people don't like the kraton handles of the F1 but they haven't failed me or worn out. The other complaint I have heard about Fallkniven is their Zytel sheaths. The F1 sheath works for me. I prefer the kydex sheath that S!K uses but it's not a major consideration for me.

My conclusions:

The F1 is a GREAT knife and I have it in my regular rotation along with my 4.1 because it does cut and carve VERY well. The VG10 blade is tough and is very similar to 01. If I had to choose one I would have to choose the GSO 4.1. It's just a better knife that stays sharper longer. I prefer the rounded edges and jimping on the 4.1 because, as mentioned above, I do a lot of 2 handed cutting and the F1 beats up my left thumb. I don't like the placement of the F1's lanyard hole, though I am sure there's a reason for where it is. However I don't like covering the cord of the lanyard when I am cutting. Whereas the 4.1 has a hidden lanyard opening just before the pommel and I don't cover the lanyard cord with my hand. I also like the removable handles on the 4.1. I do have a concern about the F1 handles failing if they get banged too hard or are dropped in boiling water. Guy's micarta scales are REALLY TOUGH and I have no concerns with them. Lastly I prefer the size of the handles and the handle material options of the 4.1. You can get 2 different kinds of micarta or G10 in a bunch of different colors.

Last thoughts: I've used both knives in the field to start fires and for wood working. Both knives are comfortable in hand and I would trust either knife in a survival situation. The F1 is less expensive and much more readily available; however the 4.1 in 3v is king of the heap!
 
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Good post OBX I agree with you on the GSO over the busse. I'm just not a fan of the jack or RMD handles anymore think there are better options
 
ivan51 said:
Good post OBX I agree with you on the GSO over the busse. I'm just not a fan of the jack or RMD handles anymore think there are better options
Click to expand...
I really want to like busse but between the blade shapes and handles I don't think I will ever purchase one but I want to want to purchase one &#128533;
 
sfrigon1 said:
I really want to like busse but between the blade shapes and handles I don't think I will ever purchase one but I want to want to purchase one &#128533;
Click to expand...
I have found that as far as mid sized blades go, I prefer S!K, but it is tough to beat a Busse when it comes to the big blades. Some of their models are super cool, while others just don't do it for me. I wanted to compare my GSO 5.1 to my Battle Grade Boss Jack in this thread, but need some more time with the BGBJ to do it justice. I would be interested to see some head to head comparisons of some of the bigger GSO blades with some Similar sized Busse.
 
khukoo head said:
I have found that as far as mid sized blades go, I prefer S!K, but it is tough to beat a Busse when it comes to the big blades. Some of their models are super cool, while others just don't do it for me. I wanted to compare my GSO 5.1 to my Battle Grade Boss Jack in this thread, but need some more time with the BGBJ to do it justice. I would be interested to see some head to head comparisons of some of the bigger GSO blades with some Similar sized Busse.
Click to expand...

I'd LOVE to see a head to head with the GSO 10 against any of the 10" Busses. They have 2 totally different philosophies on design. Jerry tends to overbuild his knives, thicker and heavier, and he sets the blade angle so that it chops and batons well but they don't cut and carve very well unless you reprofile the edge. Nothing wrong with this, people love his knives, they are just different in every way to GSOs.
 
sfrigon1 said:
I really want to like busse but between the blade shapes and handles I don't think I will ever purchase one but I want to want to purchase one &#128533;
Click to expand...

I've gone back and forth with my Busses. However I really like some of Jerry's designs. I have a SAR6 and it's a BEAST of a knife. It's not overbuilt and the choil is very comfortable. The G10 scales could use some bolstering but the curve of the handle makes it very accommodating to the hand. It's also a really functional bigger knife that is not too heavy and can take a ton of abuse. It's very similar to a 7/7. I also have two SFNOs and they are some of the best looking knives I've ever seen but they get really heavy if you use it for longer than 10 or 15 minutes. The SFNO is the one to get if you want a 6" chopper, digger, crowbar and batoner. Anyway, you can't go wrong if you get a Busse. They aren't cheap but are always in demand. You'll get your purchase price if you decide you want to get rid of it.


 
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OBX, not that you need your own threads bumped, but you seem to be in a position to put your new Fiddleback head to head!

I need to make some time for this because I have some comparisons in mind.
 
OBX351 said:
I've gone back and forth with my Busses. However I really like some of Jerry's designs. I have a SAR6 and it's a BEAST of a knife. It's not overbuilt and the choil is very comfortable. The G10 scales could use some bolstering but the curve of the handle makes it very accommodating to the hand. It's also a really functional bigger knife that is not too heavy and can take a ton of abuse. It's very similar to a 7/7. I also have two SFNOs and they are some of the best looking knives I've ever seen but they get really heavy if you use it for longer than 10 or 15 minutes. The SFNO is the one to get if you want a 6" chopper, digger, crowbar and batoner. Anyway, you can't go wrong if you get a Busse. They aren't cheap but are always in demand. You'll get your purchase price if you decide you want to get rid of it.


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Is the sar6 the top one ? This is the first traditional looking blade from them that I really like &#128077;
 
Yep it's the one on top in each picture of OBX's. Someday I'd like to try their 3 and 4 of that series.
 
sfrigon1 said:
Oh no ,they make a 4 !? I'm going to have to check that out . Hopefully it's out of my price range lol
Click to expand...

I know what you mean. They've been a little price-prohibitive for me, but they are an attractive blade with top notch materials. You might do a search for rodriguez7's sale thread. He had a user 4 up awhile back, so at least you could get a point of reference for what a used one is listing for.
 
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Silver Needle said:
OBX, not that you need your own threads bumped, but you seem to be in a position to put your new Fiddleback head to head!

I need to make some time for this because I have some comparisons in mind.
Click to expand...

I just need a few more days....

sfrigon1 said:
Is the sar6 the top one ? This is the first traditional looking blade from them that I really like &#128077;
Click to expand...

Yes it's a SAR6. The other SARs are great looking and have a similar shape. Not all have choils.
 
From the top
1) Busse Swatmandu
2) Randall #15
3) Fiddleback Duke
4) S!K GSO5.1

30615930946_7089feced2_b.jpg




Don
 
Busse 'knives' - over indulged pry bars with sketchy edges/grinds, spoon-like 'Tips' in every run, astronomical prices for infi, and uncomfortable handles with archaic ergonomics. :foot:

Isn't marketing a beautiful thing? :D

That's my 2.
 
Next Head to Head - Gunner 10 vs GSO 5.0

BlackHeart Gunner 10
Overall Length: 10.2"
Kinfe thickness: .210"
Blade length: 4.75"
Blade height: 1.6"
Weight: 11.2 oz
Handle length: 5.5"
Coating: grey Cerakote

From Rich's Gunner 10 page:
BlackHeart Signature Pattern 3D machined handle scales with liners
full height freehand ground Hamaguri / Honzukuri Convex blade
True Zero degree Convex edge
Extensive 30+ hour Heat Treat and Tempering Process
2A Cryo quenched and triple tempered at 60RC
Deburred by hand, sandblasted and finished with Cerakote.

GSO 5
Overall Length:9.85"
Blade Length: 5.00"
Blade Thickness: 0.19"
Blade Material: CPM-3V
Blade Style: Drop Point
Blade Grind: Flat
Blade Height: 1.5"
Handle Length: 4.75"
Handle Thickness: 0.79"
Handle Material: Micarta
Weight:10.50 oz.
Finish: stonewash

These two knives are at the same time very similar and very different.

The similarities:
They are about the same size and weight and both are excellent heavy duty and hard use EDC, utility, camping or survival knives. Both came INSANELY sharp and are pretty easy to resharpen with a strop. The balancing point on the knives is right at the first screw on the handle closest to the blade. Both knives have very comfortable rounded jimping. You can attach an out of the way lanyard to either knife at or just beneath the pommel. Lastly, both are limited production and hard to find unless you know where to look for them.

The Knives and design:
As you can see from the pictures the Gunner 10's handles are pretty unique. It has incredible ergonomics with the large and accommodating finger choil in front of two individual finger grooves. The Gunner 10 also has contoured and grooved canvas micarta scales that are VERY comfortable and guarantee little or no slip in any condition.

Rich hand grinds the Gunner 10 to have a Zero degree convex edge. My G10 was purchased in '14 and is made of A2 steel. The new ones are made of CPM 3V. Rich also has a unique process to make his 3d designed gripped scales. I spoke with him about all of this when I was ordering my knife. It's pretty incredible how he came up with the design of the handles and the time he spends making his knives. I also love that he offers handle liners in different colors. If you look at the pictures below you'll see that Rich adds jimping in all the right places, on the spine, on the thumb ramp and just off the pommel. It's a nice touch.

The GSO 5.0 has pretty standard contoured micarta handles. They are very comfortable and are no frills compared to the Gunner but they do get the job done. The handles are also removable. To S!K owners the GSO 5 knife is very similar to the GSO 6 and 5.1. The blades are the same height and thickness. The three knives also have the same drop point almost spear point tip. The 6 is 1 inch longer and the 5.1 is longer due to the finger choil. Guy's jimping can be found on the spine and on the pommel.

My observations over the past 3 years with these knives:
I really didn't have to do much to prep for this post. I've used these knives a bunch and love them both. They are hard use knives that you can do just about anything and they perform like a bigger knife. Maybe saying they play over their head would be another way of describing these knives. They both have tons of power. Both can baton and chop like demons and the they can do fine cutting and carving tasks. For me the difference is in the height of the blade and the blade geometry for the carving that I do. The G10 is a little tall and the blade profile is a little too thick for the finer carving tasks that I do. The GSO 5 is a better all around carver. It's not a huge difference but enough that I don't use the G10 as much as my 5.0.

My opinion changes for outdoor use. The G10 is a little bit better a batoning than the 5 and the 5 is better at carving tasks. The G10 is a little better at chopping then the 5.0. Guy's 3v is stronger and holds an edge longer than Rick's A2 even though the 5 has a thinner blade profile. However these are small differences and either knife will serve well in the field.

Sharpening:
Both respond well with a loaded strop and leather. My 5 also responded well with a Work Sharp Field sharpener. I asked Rich at BlackHeart Knives about sharpening the G10 and he gave me this answer:

if it needs to be sharpened wrap a piece of high grit wet/dry sandpaper over the strop and press lightly in the same motion you stop. You can push forward on the paper to get a sharper edge. If it ever needs a serious sharpening your can send it in and I’ll resharpen it for $25 including return shipping.
Thanks,
Rich

So far all I've needed to resharpen my G10 is my loaded 4 sided strop bat. Even after serious batoning with my G10 I've been able to get it back to razor sharpness with my strop. I have not needed to send the knife back for resharpening because it's got a very strong edge.

Cost and availability:
My G10 retailed for around $350 to $375 I think and my GSO 5 was about $250. You're not going to immediately find a G10 for sale here on on eBay unless you're really lucky. The best way to get one is to simply go to Blakcheart Knives, order one and wait 3 to 5 weeks to get it. The nice thing about this option is that you'll get a brand new made to order knife in the config you want. Guy's not making the GSO 5 any more but you can usually find a GSO 5 on eBay, here or on the S!K Fans FB page in a week or two.

The G10 is a very unique hand made knife that has TONS of hard use function. Is it worth the cost? That's up to the buyer. But I will add that the G10 has the BEST ergonomics of any knife I've ever handled.
The GSO 5.0 has been replaced by the wildly popular 4.7. Is it worth the cost? Again up to the buyer but I think it's a much easier decision because it is different enough from the 4.7 to justify having one. Or if you don't own a 4.7 but have an old 4.1 or smaller GSO the 5.0 would be a good fit sizewise.


Final thoughts:
My first opinion of the G10 was that it was just another space druid fantasy knife design long on form and short on quality and function. But after a little more inspection and research I thought the handle might actually work. I called Rich at BHKs and an hours worth of conversation convinced me to order the knife. I fell in love with it after using it for an hour. I had a similar reaction after seeing the GSO 5 for the first time. I thought it was just another plain Jane slightly oversized 5" knife just like everyone else makes. Besides I had a GSO 6 that was only 1" longer. Needless to say that opinion changed in about 10 seconds after getting it. The silly thing is that I don't use these knives as much as I should. A few years ago I started using my 5.1 all the time. So much so that I thought "I should sell my 5s and my G10" because just don't use them enough to justify having them. I would then grab both knives, handle both for a few seconds and think "why the hell don't I use these more often ??"!!

In closing these are 2 spectacular knives and a credit to their manufacturers. They are in 2 totally different price categories, that is to say expensive and stupid expensive. But if you can get over the price you won't be disappointed with either.










 
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