Heads up from Brazil!

Megalobyte

Megalobyte

Joined
Jun 5, 2002
Messages
2,761
Knife-Art just got in several integrals and other bowies from the boys from Brazil, ie. Sfreddo, Vilar and Dorneles. Nice stuff.

This is my pick. :)

knifeart_1847_84483241
 
Worth every penny. I happened and drooled over that for ten minutes last eve.... I wish I won the lottery today! ;)

Thanks!

Coop
 
yowzaa!!! just saw those beauts this morning and had to lift the pics for sure... Great stuff! :D
 
Wulf said:
....Those who enjoy the work of the Brazilian Bladesmiths do themselves a disservice by not checking their website regularly.... In fact, there are several great knives available for sale there right now.
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Aint that the truth. This Dorneles forged integral falls into the "raging bargain" category, IMHO. Aaargh! So much pre-Blade temptation!! :mad:

orig.jpg


Cheers,

Roger
 
on so many levels.

Call me xenophobic, but I really, really do not see any point in acquiring custom knives from any place but the USA, if you are an American.

We taught the rest of the world how to make custom knives, IMHO, and I have historical references for this.

I say keep it here. (and am not saying this to start a flame war, if you disagree, so be it)

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Steven, you are certainly entitled to your opinions, and I am all for buying American made products within reason, but I think custom knives, as a type of art, transcends many of the other products where I can see sticking to american made. If you extend your logic, then Jerry Fisk was unamerican when he taught these Brazillian smiths to make knives. I don't think Jerry was wrong to do it, do you?

Seems to me, great art and those who create it, cannot be defined, nor should be limited by geographical borders. An awful lot of history's greatest artists were not American, and if you're going to boycott non-american artists, you're going to be missing an awful lot.

Of course, that's just my opinion. :)
 
That is my opinion, and I plan to share it with him at Blade, if we have the chance to chat.

I can forgive the Guild, for the name is Knifemaker's Guild, and that is that. But in speaking of the ABS, it is American Bladesmith Society, and I think the membership should be limited to those who are American by birth, or naturalization, and those who reside in America.

As I said before, I realize that this may be construed as xenophobic, but I really don't care. I have had this perception for as long as I have owned knives, and I do not own a custom that was not crafted here.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Art is art regardless of where it came from. I can understand wanting to only purchase American made knives so as to keep the money "in country" and support your fellow countryman, but it's not like a Brazilian custom is any less of a knife as an American one simply because of whom made it. It's not like anybody's outsourcing custom knives because they're less expensive and the labor is cheaper. They're not "subverting" American knifemakers in any way.

I don't think it's un-American to support a hard working artist and appreciate his craft even though he's not American.
 
Planterz said:
Art is art regardless of where it came from. I can understand wanting to only purchase American made knives so as to keep the money "in country" and support your fellow countryman, but it's not like a Brazilian custom is any less of a knife as an American one simply because of whom made it. It's not like anybody's outsourcing custom knives because they're less expensive and the labor is cheaper. They're not "subverting" American knifemakers in any way.

I don't think it's un-American to support a hard working artist and appreciate his craft even though he's not American.
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Well said. Of course, I'm neither American nor xenophobic, so what do I know. :rolleyes: I guess I should re-think taking up Dan Farr on his offer for a shop-visit and forging demo. Wouldn't want to put him in the position of being un-American.

We'll disagree on this one Steven. And yes, I know you're okay with that. ;)

Roger
 
Kohai999 said:
on so many levels.

Call me xenophobic, but I really, really do not see any point in acquiring custom knives from any place but the USA, if you are an American.

We taught the rest of the world how to make custom knives, IMHO, and I have historical references for this.

I say keep it here. (and am not saying this to start a flame war, if you disagree, so be it)
Click to expand...

i'm nobody here - but here's my take on it:

i'm a little curious how this squares with your interest in Iaijutsu. this is a japanese art - are japanese smiths & practitioners wrong to teach their skills to westerners? if you're xenophobic why are you learning a particularly eastern art form? do you own any japanese made blades?

also - despite the understood definition of American as being someone from the USA, a case can be made that an American is someone from North or South America. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American

and furthermore - from the ABS website "The American Bladesmith Society, Inc. has supported the international knife making community since 1976."

and as to your last point - knife making has been a part of the world since early man first started shaping stone into pointy objects. trying to claim that Americans have (or should have) a monopoly on the art of handmade knives makes little sense to me.
 
Three thoughts on the matter:

Firstly, I am extrememly impressed with the work coming from these guys, they are offering superb quality at a very good price, their designs and work ethic are top notch also in my view - If Steven wants to exclude them from his scope then fine by me, his loss (his right), there is less competition for a scarce item. Can anyone advise if they will be around in Atlanta either as visitors or table holders? I need to talk to a couple of these guys quick!

Secondly, Steven, I appreciate your provocative nature, and confidence, some of your comments have stimulated my enthusiasm to research a few points in the past. But in this instance my opinion is that you have stepped out a bit too far - the people you refer to are very much part of the custom knife community, which in itself is more than the States alone, its a community I value and respect. When I see the contribution these guys are making to that community I feel your comments are unwarranted and not what I have come to expect in this arena.

Thirdly, my opinion on Opinions, and in this I include myself: "It is not advisable, James, to venture unsolicited opinions. You should spare yourself the embarrassing discovery of their exact value to your listener." ~ Ayn Rand

Normally I abide by this sentiment myself, but this time I felt compelled to stick my head up ........ don't get me wrong Steven, it is good that we have differing views and opinions in life, they are the seeds of future knowledge in some cases, I see value in your contributions.

This time however you touched upon a subject I hold dear. I have been fortunate enough to experience many different cultures, each one has opened up my eyes and my mind, and when I see prejudice of anykind restricting a persons chance to experience those riches I always try and convince them to have another look. ;)

Stephen
 
Steven.

Amerigo Vespucci never set foot on North "America". Perhaps the ABS should be getting permission from the Brazilians. :rolleyes:

"His second voyage of 1501-2 is of fundamental importance in the history of geographic discovery in that Vespucci himself, and scholars as well, became convinced that the newly discovered lands were not part of Asia but a "New World." In 1507 a humanist, Martin Waldseemüller, reprinted at Saint-Dié in Lorraine the "Quattuor Americi navigationes" ("Four Voyages of Amerigo"), preceded by a pamphlet of his own entitled "Cosmographiae introductio," and he suggested that the newly discovered world be named "ab Americo Inventore . . . quasi Americi terram sive Americam" ("from Amerigo the discoverer . . . as if it were the land of Americus or America"). The proposal is perpetuated in a large planisphere of Waldseemüller's, in which the name America appears for the first time, although applied only to South America. The suggestion caught on; the extension of the name to North America, however, came later."*

* Cut and paste plagerism
http://www.bigoid.de/conquista/biographien/vespucci.htm
 
If I might return briefly to the original point of this thread, let me say that these guys really are turning out first class work - both in the area of big forged integral Gaucho-type knives, as well as traditional bowies and hunters.

I recall seeing posted somewhere that Fisk has bought one of their knives for his personal collection and has another on order (I forget which specific makers were involved, but I'm pretty sure Vilar was one). That is what I call a meaningful endorsement. I sure hope some of the Brazilians are coming to Blade!

Roger
 
Though I don't think I can make Blade, I could be very happy picking up that Sfreddo dirk from above. :) It looks like an incredible value and I shudder to think what it cost had it been bought directly from their website. These guys are offering major bang for the buck.

To Steven, I would ask this: Do you have an appreciation of non-knife art? Paintings, sculptures, etc.? If so, and you were inclined to buy some of it, would you also limit yourself to american artists only, or is this something that for some reason applies only to knives? If so, why?
 
I like all art, don't get me wrong. I don't think that non American knifemakers should stop making knives, I just don't think that we should be helping them become better, sharing secrets and all that.

As far as the Iaijutsu goes, my Sensei became an American citizen three years ago. I own some Japanese blades, and a Howard Clark wakizashi. For my money, no one makes a better neo-nihonto than Howard Clark. That is purely from a using perspective, and not an art appreciation one. For the art aspect, it is very hard to beat the Yoshihara clan, and last I heard, they were not sharing a whole lot of clan secrets with gaijiin.

As I said before, it is everyone's choice who they buy knives from, and I do not think that my measly collection is going to make a difference one way or the other.

Ari, I'll put it like this. There are far too many talented knifemakers in this country competing for the same dollar, for me to go and dilute it by going offshore. Putting your money where your mouth is, it's one of the last ways that we have to walk the walk, as well as talk the talk.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Hello

I am not trying to compare myself with the Brazilian makers cited so far os this thread - and there are a lot more talented guys besides then, by the way - but think I should comment about two things:
First, I agree that "modern" custom knifemaking as we know it today was an art born in the US after WWII with guys like Richtig, Scagel and Moran - and the Randall knives, too, though they don´t fit exactly on the same category - becoming more well known tothe general public. After these, many more came to the trade, like Loveless, just to name one. And one of the reasons modern knifemaking has become so strong and well known is the phylosophy of sharing techniques and secrets - a phylosophy made popular by many of the first American makers. Now, by applying this phylosophy to even more people around the world, that in turn will contruibute by creating and sharing their own styles and techniques, that will eventually become availabile to American collectors and will influence American makers, is a good thing or a bad one? Will it have good or bad long term results?
Second, even tough I don´t think I am good enough to teach anyone and don´t think I have much to offer, guess who was the first apprentice I had in my shop? Right, an American! Should I have closed my doors to him? This is not to mention the many times I was asked to teach my cord wrapping techniques - enough that I will soon put a tutorial in my site about this. And it will have an English version because many of those who asked were Americans. Should I not allow then to learn my "secrets"?
I think Jerry Fisk was more than generous to come teach us back in 2001. What he did was not only teach us how to heat and bang steel into blades. He has opened our minds and taught us to become better professionals, more than anything. And he did not do that because we were Americans or Brazilians - or Israelis or Japanese for that matter. He did it because we were willing top learn and he had things to teach, in the best spirit of knifemaking.
His efforts are already being rewarded like I explained above - many makers and collectors are now calling a knife style "Brazilian" (the integral drop points, wich I think is an exageration, though, as they were around before we made them popular), and applying the style to their creations, completing the circle.
And for those who asked, Rodrigo, Luciano and Ricardo will be at Blade (table 2-D or 4-D one of these two), as well as my friend female knifemaker Silvana Mouzinho as well (17 something, I believe - look for A. Gatea´s name on the Blade exhibitor´s list).
 
Steve
Sometimes there is a mis conception of my trip to Brazil. The guys where already making fine knives down there. All I helped to was band them together a bit tighter and help point them in a more world type direction. I have publicly said and will continue to say, they are the ones that taught me how to do the intergal dirks. I really wanted to learn how to do this the right way so that ws the best place to learn. I recieved more knowledge than I passed on to them in my way of thinking.

The main reason I wanted to learn how to do the dirks right is that the Meditiertain dirk is in a large part the fore runner of our american bowie knife. I have tried to pick up as much info as possible on the different styles of knives around the world because as people moved here to this country they brought that influence with them that all went together to make our bowie knife what it is today. In this manner I better understand how our national knife developed. Getting the dirk right was a large step and I thank the guys for that.

Our country is in its base a firearms society. We were founded with the use of firearms. Cutlery had been made for centuries before in other parts of the world whilst my ancestors were running around in loin cloths still using rocks to cut with.
 
Kohai999 said:
I just don't think that we should be helping them become better, sharing secrets and all that.
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Steven, don't tell me or anyone else what we should do when it comes to people we have come to know, like, and respect.

You can do whatever you want with your own collection and your own personal relationships. You can feel free to constrain yourself and limit your own opportunities as much as you want. Your suggestions to others regarding the personal relationships they choose to forge, however, are entirely unwelcome. It's not your "xenophobia" that bothers me, it's your arrogance and presumption.

The Brazilian bladesmiths are good people. Friendly people. Talented people.

Also, just for clarification, Jerry Fisk did not teach them how to make knives. They and their predecessors have been making knives for centuries. The good Mr. Fisk taught them certain techniques (damascus, for example), and they, in turn, taught him some of their own as well. He is, in fact, making gaucho inspired integrals nowadays as well. Both parties helped eachother, shared secrets, etc., and the ABS and many American makers - some of whom Steven might himself buy knives from - have benefitted greatly from their relationship with the Brazilian bladesmiths.
 
Wulf said:
Steven, don't tell me or anyone else what we should do when it comes to people we have come to know, like, and respect.

Your suggestions to others regarding the personal relationships they choose to forge, however, are entirely unwelcome. It's not your "xenophobia" that bothers me, it's your arrogance and presumption.
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I re-read my comments, and as far as I can tell, I never suggested who you be friends with, and I said something along the lines of "If you are an American, I don't understand why you would buy custom knives not made in America?"

Like who you want, love who you want, it is STILL a country that has democratic principles and values freedom. Wulf I could care less if you were "married" to a same sex Brazilian knifemaker-that's your personal business.

I brought these points up mainly as a matter of personal national pride, and of economics. It had nothing to do with friendship. I said that I would try to talk with Jerry Fisk at Blade, for my personal edification. I admit when I am wrong, try not to make the same mistakes twice, and learn from them.

I am not trying to convince anyone that their "not American" knives are inferior or undesireable. This leaves more for all of you that want them. Think of it in a positive light.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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