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Heat Casualty
- Thread starter C_Kyle
- Start date
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- Jun 7, 2009
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My #1 rule is I never go anywhere without water. Ever. In any weather, temperature, or location. Ever. I used to think if I didn't need it, I could always pour it out. I never have. It always gets consumed.
Even in the dead of winter, you can be tricked yourself that you have enough, but I've found this not to be the case. It's just as important to stay hydrated at all times.
Even in the dead of winter, you can be tricked yourself that you have enough, but I've found this not to be the case. It's just as important to stay hydrated at all times.
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2005
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- 1,086
It's funny about the water, because it's all over the place. I did leave my filter behind, so drinking the pond water was not an option for me; or at least, that was my thinking. I didn't feel like getting infected with parasites, etc.
I'm still of the mind that I need to carry all the water I'm going to need; so, now I'm thinking about the best way to carry more.
Water is heavy; 1 gallon weighs 8.345lbs. I think 2.5 gallons, which weighs 20lbs would be enough for what I'm doing. 20lbs of water is something I really need to think about.
I'm still of the mind that I need to carry all the water I'm going to need; so, now I'm thinking about the best way to carry more.
Water is heavy; 1 gallon weighs 8.345lbs. I think 2.5 gallons, which weighs 20lbs would be enough for what I'm doing. 20lbs of water is something I really need to think about.
Gald to hear you are ok. As far as the people who came for you, situations like yours is why we SAR people do what we do. Sometimes crap happens man.
Some thoughts,
A filter weighs a fraction of what water does
Know your capabilities, cramping and charlie horses can and will happen despite being hydrated, it can cripple you as you well know.
You can overload on salt easily drinking pure electrolites. You need to dilute gatorade or the like at least 50% if you are going to drink it constantly over a long haul or you will OD on the stuff. Too much salt and potassium will cramp you up. So its not as simple as drink lots of sports drinks, it has to be in the right proportion to water.
Even with all this heat can still get you. Its all about fitness, conditioning and environmental conditions.
FYI, Gatorade was originally designed to be consumed at less than half its concentration. They couldnt sell it because the taste was not appealing so they concentrated it. Elite endurance athletes drink it in a 1:3 ratio with water either mixed or 1 bottle of drink followed by 2 bottles of water when needed.
When faced with dehydration and heat illness with nothing but untreated water, DRINK the untreated water, dehydration will kill you loong before any nasties take hold if at all.
Good for you getting the troops out with communication, you did it right and didnt wait or try to hero your way out of the situation.
Skam
Some thoughts,
A filter weighs a fraction of what water does
Know your capabilities, cramping and charlie horses can and will happen despite being hydrated, it can cripple you as you well know.
You can overload on salt easily drinking pure electrolites. You need to dilute gatorade or the like at least 50% if you are going to drink it constantly over a long haul or you will OD on the stuff. Too much salt and potassium will cramp you up. So its not as simple as drink lots of sports drinks, it has to be in the right proportion to water.
Even with all this heat can still get you. Its all about fitness, conditioning and environmental conditions.
FYI, Gatorade was originally designed to be consumed at less than half its concentration. They couldnt sell it because the taste was not appealing so they concentrated it. Elite endurance athletes drink it in a 1:3 ratio with water either mixed or 1 bottle of drink followed by 2 bottles of water when needed.
When faced with dehydration and heat illness with nothing but untreated water, DRINK the untreated water, dehydration will kill you loong before any nasties take hold if at all.
Good for you getting the troops out with communication, you did it right and didnt wait or try to hero your way out of the situation.
Skam
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2003
- Messages
- 13,182
You should always carry your water filter and stop and drink often.
I don't know the terrain down there but over 20 miles in one day would be tremendously ambitious for me.
You had the medics check you out once you got back to make sure it wasn't anything other than dehydration right???:thumbup:
I don't know the terrain down there but over 20 miles in one day would be tremendously ambitious for me.
You had the medics check you out once you got back to make sure it wasn't anything other than dehydration right???:thumbup:
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2007
- Messages
- 5,846
Seriously glad you are okay. Jess, the proto-nurse, tells me there's a mineral and electrolyte element to this, and that the Emergen-C stuff is a good thing to have around.
I say, drink early, drink often.
What are your prevention measures going forward?
I say, drink early, drink often.
What are your prevention measures going forward?
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2007
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- 5,846
one extra note on that- I got this pounded into me for desert survival- weight your ass down with water and drink it. it's not hard to go through a gallon in the first hour since you probably didn't start out fully hydrated anyhow. There's 8 pounds down.
I admit to generally going out locally (creeks and such) with 3 liters, and a bottle of iodine. I know the ag chemicals are nasty, but if it's heat stroking or drink, I drink.
I admit to generally going out locally (creeks and such) with 3 liters, and a bottle of iodine. I know the ag chemicals are nasty, but if it's heat stroking or drink, I drink.
Not to sound like AA, but thanks for sharing. Reading about a first hand experience really puts it in the front of peoples heads better than anything else. Puts it in perspective too that a rather experienced person can make one mistake and everything just cascades out of control. had you died, somebody would have found and posted your article and we'd all have laughed, blamed Bear Grylls, and reticuled you for being un-prepared and foolish. while thinking we're all better then that, and it could never happen to one of us.
anyways sweet hat, the poor fellah.
anyways sweet hat, the poor fellah.
- Joined
- May 16, 2009
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- 150
We do not have the heat like that in the Colorado mountains so thirst is not reminding you to hydrate and regulating yourself to take a drink is important- also the high altitude compounds the whole scenario. Glad to hear that it all ended well--what did strike me was that your cell saved the day, the wilderness area that we hunt for a week has no cell reception...we do have a minimum of the two of us and the way we communicate is by 2-way radio....this of course still presents a problem when the terrain blocks our radio frequency....Steve
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- Jun 25, 2008
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To the OP, I'm glad things worked out OK.
A couple of questions about your experience if I may.
How hot & humid were the conditions you were walking in?
Did you wear the hat on the dashboard in the picture? It looks like it is a warm one.
What was the frequency, colour and volume of your urine?
At any stage did you stop sweating?
I ask these, as physical activity in hot / humid conditions is different to physical activity in dry heat.
Humidity will significantly reduce the evaporative cooling effect of sweat. It's possible to have enough water and still suffer from heat exhaustion / heat stroke by physical activity (that generates heat), combined with high humidity that reduces the cooling effect of sweating leading to an increase of body core temperature.
If the hat you were wearing is a warm one it would have further contributed to the problem by trapping heat from your head (remember most heat loss occurs through the head).
Thanks in advance for your answers :thumbup:
Kind regards
Mick
A couple of questions about your experience if I may.
How hot & humid were the conditions you were walking in?
Did you wear the hat on the dashboard in the picture? It looks like it is a warm one.
What was the frequency, colour and volume of your urine?
At any stage did you stop sweating?
I ask these, as physical activity in hot / humid conditions is different to physical activity in dry heat.
Humidity will significantly reduce the evaporative cooling effect of sweat. It's possible to have enough water and still suffer from heat exhaustion / heat stroke by physical activity (that generates heat), combined with high humidity that reduces the cooling effect of sweating leading to an increase of body core temperature.
If the hat you were wearing is a warm one it would have further contributed to the problem by trapping heat from your head (remember most heat loss occurs through the head).
Thanks in advance for your answers :thumbup:
Kind regards
Mick
batosai117
Gold Member
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- Jun 5, 2007
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- 5,463
Damn, glad to hear you made it out okay :thumbup:
I believe at the point you reached, taking a rest in the shade and sipping water is a great natural self treatment. Trying to control your breathing was some good thinking in the heat of it all (no pun intended). Perhaps a bandana could be added to your pack. With all of the water in the area, you could just soak the bandana and put it around your neck to help cool off. I'm no expert, but keeping cool and resting seems to be a good self remedy.
Luckily help (and your mom) knew what to do in order to get someone to your position. If I were to call my fiance in the same situation, she'd probably run the battery dry freaking out and telling me I shouldn't have gone in the first place instead of getting help
Glad to have you back and take care, J.
I believe at the point you reached, taking a rest in the shade and sipping water is a great natural self treatment. Trying to control your breathing was some good thinking in the heat of it all (no pun intended). Perhaps a bandana could be added to your pack. With all of the water in the area, you could just soak the bandana and put it around your neck to help cool off. I'm no expert, but keeping cool and resting seems to be a good self remedy.
Luckily help (and your mom) knew what to do in order to get someone to your position. If I were to call my fiance in the same situation, she'd probably run the battery dry freaking out and telling me I shouldn't have gone in the first place instead of getting help
Glad to have you back and take care, J.
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2005
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Temp was not that hot, maybe 92 and humidity was pretty high. I drink a ton of water and normally pee every 45 minutes or so. I only peed twice during the hike. I knew I was dehydrated after the second pee, which was a dark yellow.
Plans for the future are to:
Stick to the preplanned goal
Increase distance/pace in moderation. Jumping from 12 miles two weeks ago to 21 miles was dumb and unnecessary.
Carry more water and not od on emergen-c.
Alter my break interval; currently 1hr. Make the break a real break and not just 5 minutes to sit and eat an apple.
Train in an easily accessable place that still provides similar terrain.
Plans for the future are to:
Stick to the preplanned goal
Increase distance/pace in moderation. Jumping from 12 miles two weeks ago to 21 miles was dumb and unnecessary.
Carry more water and not od on emergen-c.
Alter my break interval; currently 1hr. Make the break a real break and not just 5 minutes to sit and eat an apple.
Train in an easily accessable place that still provides similar terrain.
Thanks for talking about your experience. I tend to have the "It won't happen to me" attitude toward heat injuries, so it is good to hear about it from someone first hand.
I'm do most of my hiking in S Florida and it is amazing how much I sweat during the course of a day. 21 miles in the summer down here would probably kill me.
I'm do most of my hiking in S Florida and it is amazing how much I sweat during the course of a day. 21 miles in the summer down here would probably kill me.
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2002
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- 7,269
I wanted to tell a little story about yesterday:
Here goes:
The FL Trail, starting at Juniper Springs and going to FR-10. The naked people were still at Hidden Pond, but clothed this time. I think they live there.
21.45 miles of SUCK. I was a heat casualty for the first time in my f*cking life, an actual heat casualty...as in, seizure and maybe death was very close. This sh!t happened at around mile 15 or so, in a 45 minute time span.
Both calves locked in the foot pointed down position and continued to tighten beyond the point that my feet could no longer tilt downward. I fall over, and it hurts severely. My pulse gets faster and faster, and I start to fade out. I'm out of the 1.5 gallons of water and electrolyte mix and food I brought and still have 6 miles to get back to my vehicle. I roll over on my back and try to control my breathing to relax my pulse for about 30 minutes; it doesn't work. My arms start tingling bad and start to curl up; I can't move my hands more than about 6". I jerk my body as hard as I can and knock my pack over, and shimmy up to it and miracle my cell out and holy jesus I have signal. I'm almost totally incoherent, and can barely speak at this point. I call my Mom and ask her to call Juniper Springs and tell them that I'm not going to make the 5:00 closing deadline. At least, that's what I was trying to say. She calls 911. I call her back to tell here my coordinates, and they come out all f*ucked up. I am now lying on my back again and throw up everything I've eaten all damn day all over myself, in my Real Deal Brazil hat (I'm not washing it either, which just adds to its character)...everywhere. I continue to dry heave for about 3 more hours. It's the only thing that kept me conscious, even though I couldn't form sentences or move.
911 calls me and has me call them back so they can get a fix on my cell, and I stay on the phone with 911 for 4 more hours or so. During this time, after 2 hours, my legs and arms start to work again. I move on down the trail, cross the creek, walk some more and collapse. I move down the trail some more, and this is where I remain until the Sheriff's helicopter finds me, which took a long time. It took even longer for the Medics to walk to me, once they realized they couldn't land the helicopter or drive anything to me. By this time, I've had a little water and am feeling mobile, and we all walk out, at night, blazing our own trail through the woods like bulls in a china shop. The blazing the trail part I thought was stupid; I told the deputy I would stick to the trail because I know it, if it were me.
21.45 miles from Juniper Springs to FR-10 to the Sinkhole back to FR-10 and Juniper Springs. I had originally intended to just og to Hidden Pond and back, ~12 miles; but no, I pushed on, and on, and finally made it to FR-10 when I saw a sign for a sinkhole. I just had to go see the Sinkhole, which added about 1.5 hours of hiking, which made me late. I was moving at 5-6mph pace for over an hour without any water when my body said, "I'm done."
My new motto: You're not pushing it until you need to be medivaced out of the woods and walk out instead.
All joking aside, the Sheriff's Office, the Fire Rescue, and the park personnel went above and beyond to take care of me. I feel like a total asshole for being a heat casualty pussy and wasting a crap load of county money; but I respect the guys that came to my aide even more than I did before.
The good news out of this, is I'm improving for Bataan in March, and haven't died yet.Some things I've learned about my body/mind: There's nothing I can do when my body just totally stops working; other than that, I have full control and have no issue pushing through pain and weakness. The bad news is, I have to experience something before I can fully understand it; an unfortunately being a heat casualty was one of those things that's never happened before, so...
Wulf?
I'd like to see this, edited, as a sticky for future WSS readers...wonderfully articulated of a dire situation. Should be a cautionary tale. Maybe locked, for only Mods to add other dangerous reactions/situations at their discretion.
Glad you made it out, glad you wrote it up.
go, and sin no more.
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I've done all my hiking in the Southwest, where water resupply is not a happening thing. My rule of thumb when all the water you have is what you carry "Turn-around point is when the water jug reaches half-full."
+1 on the suggestion of reducing your kit.
+1 on the suggestion of carrying filter or purification tablets. Why carry tons of water if you can safely resupply?
+1 on the suggestion of reducing your kit.
+1 on the suggestion of carrying filter or purification tablets. Why carry tons of water if you can safely resupply?
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- Feb 7, 2005
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I'm 31, 5'5", 145lbs. I'm in decent shape, run 3 times a week, eat healthy, drink about a gallon or more of water per day. My blood pressure, taken 3-4 times a week, in the morning, is around 121/70. My cholesterol is a little high, but I'm working on that. It was 205 several weeks ago.
Doc Bill, I'm having labs drawn tomorrow. I've spoken with two docs today, and they're retarded. Both seem totally unconcerned and wonder why I want labs drawn and tested. I've also spoken to some Army buddies who say that the Army now considers heat injuries very serious and places casualties on a 1 year profile, to be reevaluated by the med board. To me, that says it's serious in nature.
I'm having a hard time finding local medical advice that is worth a penny.
Kismet, I'll rewrite it and maybe it can be stickied.
Doc Bill, I'm having labs drawn tomorrow. I've spoken with two docs today, and they're retarded. Both seem totally unconcerned and wonder why I want labs drawn and tested. I've also spoken to some Army buddies who say that the Army now considers heat injuries very serious and places casualties on a 1 year profile, to be reevaluated by the med board. To me, that says it's serious in nature.
I'm having a hard time finding local medical advice that is worth a penny.
Kismet, I'll rewrite it and maybe it can be stickied.
Do you do hard labor outdoors that you drink a gallon+ of water per day?
The often quoted 8 glasses of water (64oz or 1/2gallon) is even in question these days. Also, that recommendation was to include all fluids; including things like soup and coffee.
I'm no doctor but maybe that you drink so much water on a normal day; you might have depleted the electrolytes in you system prior to starting your hike.
http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20020711213420data_trunc_sys.shtml
Another error might have been if you were wearing cotton clothes - did you?