Heat treat and tempering 1095?

LRB said:
I don't think it is PURE hogwash, but I also don't believe he knows how important heat control and a proper quench medium is for 1095, nor what differential heat treating entails. I believe he is also confusing quality with carbon content, which are two different things. As long as the steel was not over heated, his method would work fairly well with a eutectic, or hypoeutectic like the lower carbon 10xx steels. I have had camp fires that would heat steel as he stated. Melt glass to a puddle in just a few minutes.
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And there you have it, a campfire can indeed get 1095 hot enough to get the job done. I've stated this a few times, and will once again, I was describing NOVICE METHODS.

I'm glad to see that others were directly helpful in helping steer this little fellow on his path to achieving his objectives.

Here's another idea, youtube it, see what they're doing ;)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LRB
I don't think it is PURE hogwash, but I also don't believe he knows how important heat control and a proper quench medium is for 1095, nor what differential heat treating entails. I believe he is also confusing quality with carbon content, which are two different things. As long as the steel was not over heated, his method would work fairly well with a eutectic, or hypoeutectic like the lower carbon 10xx steels. I have had camp fires that would heat steel as he stated. Melt glass to a puddle in just a few minutes.

And there you have it, a campfire can indeed get 1095 hot enough to get the job done. I've stated this a few times, and will once again, I was describing NOVICE METHODS.

I'm glad to see that others were directly helpful in helping steer this little fellow on his path to achieving his objectives.

Here's another idea, youtube it, see what they're doing
 
Well, even though I said pure hogwash, I do recall a movie called the African Queen, so anything's possible :o)
Robert
 
hppyevraftr said:
Canid, I don't think you've ever done it before. LOL a good campfire can easily warp, melt, heat treat your steel.

Easily, again, a GOOD STRONG CAMPFIRE, the size 3 or 4 of your friends would gather around drinking beer, is the size of fire needed for 1095.

I agree w/ the previous comment that 1084 is alot easier to work with if you're a novice. It definitely is, but this guy stated he had 1095 steel. IMO 1095 is a much higher quality steel, he already has it, I'm just helping him get it treated by NOVICE METHODS.

It's obvious that even some who posted on this are not aware that you can EASILY heat up 1095 for a good quench.

Has anyone ever done this before? I can't be the only one.
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i do all my heat treatment in a charcoal forge, and have worked with fire quite a bit. like i said, maybe you burn different wood than i do, or do your burning in considerable wind.
 
to be fair, i am more than willing to give it a deliberate try the next time i have a bonfire.
 
To be fair, I have melted beer bottles in a hardwood fire and I don't remember if we had wind or not, however different glass melts at different temps, but from what I could find the common varieties melt above the austenitizing heat of 1095. I believe one could HT in such a fire, but the steel would have to closely monitored just as in a forge, and one would likely need long tongs. A forced air charcoal fire would certainly be a lot easier.
 
Yes it should . Try for something more controllable than a bonfire if nothing else Google Tim Lively and make a charcoal forge like he uses and put a black iron pipe in it to act as a muffle

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I'm getting out of this discussion. I tried to help Scs.knives. Perhaps one of the more advanced experts on this discussion can help you achieve your goal of heat treating at home.
I appreciated this discussion & wish everyone peace. I admire many skilled artisans on this site. :) Stay Happy@!
 
I think I have been to 13 different third world countries in 3 Continent's at last count. Every place I have gone I have tried to visit a local blacksmith or bladesmith. In the crudest of conditions in the most rustic, primitive conditions imaginable, I have not seen a blacksmith use Wood for a forging or heat treating fuel. I have seen Blacksmiths in Africa and Asia, burn there own wood to make charcoal. Then using a bag billows made from a cow stomach or a box billows do their forging and heat treat. some kind of air flow that can be regulated is a huge step in control of your metal working.
 
Guys, a "camp fire" burned down to coals IS a Charcoal fire. A deep bed of embers will hold heat plenty long enough to HT a blade in a reasonably controlled manner. No biggie at all. A big heaping fire of seasoned white oak, in a sheltered location with no wind would be an ideal "mellow" "steady' and "soaking" fire for HT. Remember there are two types of knife makers; the Mystics, such as the OP, and the Mechanics, such as the nay sayers. OP has it right on. 'Just depends on how you work. :):):)
 
hppy: i'm not trying to tell you you are wrong, but that i'm going to have to try it for myself before i'm sold.

nothing wrong with that, and it's an easy thing to try, so why not.
 
Well, I can't say it works, I haven't tried it, and I have worked a LOT of 1095, BUT, heating an 11 in blade in anything less than a controlled environment (ie: forge) is almost impossible to control. Hell it can be crazy to control in a forge. You'll know when ya quench it. It'll warp like a corkscrew and then you'll hear the *tink*. It's hosed....

I have seen folks use wood 'chunks', but they had one hell of a blower. And the chunks were 'cooked down' for a while.

MAAP gas and fire bricks stacked together for a good forge for a small (under 4 in) blade, is ok.
 
for a campfire i like useing pine logs, they burn hot and fast. then once i have a good bit of coals i arrange some more logs to make sort of an "oven" for them the blade to slide into. once that gets going hot, just find somthing nice to fan it with and get your steel in there.

just make sure to use big enough logs that wont collapse too soon, and to pull the blade out carefully so you dont bump anything and bend your blade.

this is how i do it and it seems to work well, and surrounds the steel with a lot of active heat and airflow to keep it hot.
 
I'd like to point out that, although I didn't manage to find any credible heat treating methods on YouTube, I did find a video of a pinhead smashing an ignited can of WD40 with a shovel, causing it to explode and set himself on fire. Seems like a fantastic source of invaluable information...
 
Fox Creek said:
Guys, a "camp fire" burned down to coals IS a Charcoal fire. A deep bed of embers will hold heat plenty long enough to HT a blade in a reasonably controlled manner. No biggie at all. A big heaping fire of seasoned white oak, in a sheltered location with no wind would be an ideal "mellow" "steady' and "soaking" fire for HT. Remember there are two types of knife makers; the Mystics, such as the OP, and the Mechanics, such as the nay sayers. OP has it right on. 'Just depends on how you work. :):):)
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Just because you *can* do something does not mean it's a particularly good idea. Call me a nay-sayer if you wish, having made knives for 30 years I have learned a lot, and would like to save new folks from making stupid mistakes. Thinking that you can do a proper heat treat of 1095 in a campfire is a stupid mistake. Yes you can get it hard, can you get an even heat treat that makes effective use of the capabilities of the steel without excessive grain growth? not likely. Granted there are people who make beautiful looking blades in primitive forge conditions, (Tim Lively comes to mind) and I have done a demonstration of forging using a charcoal fired pit forge, and even heat treated in that pit forge, however I was using 1084. 1095 is an entirely different beast (once again READ the stickies on working the three steel types) and I would not put that knife up against anything I have heat treated under controlled conditions in my kiln.

A pearlite nose is not something that a clown wears, If you screw up a hypereutectoid steel you will run into it, with 1095 you need to do a long enough soak at austenitizing temperature to dissolve all of that carbon into solid solution, then you have to quench it through the pearlite nose in under a second or you will precipitate all of that carbon into lamllar sheets of pearlite. You will destroy a file on it, but still have an effective hardness in the 50s

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