Heat Treat, Done Right?

Entrek (RIP Ray) and Mineral Mountain Hatchet Works.
Both are what some might call “mid-tech” but fall within the parameters if Busse and Chris Reeve also qualify.
 
Wowbagger said:
Here you go, I thought I remembered some pretty much solid data from back in the day !
I thought the thread was here but I found it over on "that other forum".
No links are allowed but I wonder how much trouble I'll get in if I mumble something about searching for :
😏mumble, mumble . . .HRC Database Spyderco Forums 2019 . . .mumble, mumble

PS: Hardness isn't every thing (well to me it is, but I'm not very bright) but I will say that one of the other high end knife makers mentioned in the begining of this blade forums thread we are curently conversing in (and I love their knives) . . . well they were KNOWN to run their S30V down in the mid to higher fifties when they could have been running it at sixty or more. They did this so that the blades were " easier to sharpen" , or some such, and that right there turned me off to their heat treat (no matter how "good" it was .
I'm just saying.
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Are you alluding to Benchmade in your second paragraph? If so, then you should feel free to type Benchmade out nice and clearly. I never had an issue with S30V from Spyderco, but one BM folder in S30V was enough to turn me off of the brand entirely. Save for a few proven users, I sold off my dozen or so BM folders after getting tired of the darn near gummy S30V on a Volli. It took forever to sharpen, chasing a stubborn burr, then it lost its edge almost immediately after light use. No amount of reprofiling helped dig into better steel.

I figured it was just a rare lemon until I learned their first few batches of Bailouts sported 3V that was intentionally run to lower hardness to avoid warranty claims. Just killed any enthusiasm I had for the brand. I heard that BM later acknowledged their practices and adjusted to offering their premium steels at appropriate hardness, and I have no reason at all to doubt that is the case today.

But I've never found an issue with steels from Spyderco, Hogue, Kershaw, Cold Steel, Mora, Protech, Boker, GEC, etc. and therefore tend to stick with those manufacturers.
 
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Monofletch said:
I’ll admit Spyderco does a ton of different steel. Does that make them “market leader for production manufacturers” no. I like Spyderco too. That is just a very broad assumption. I’m not trying to fight.
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Spyderco has hugely influenced the knife industry in several ways including the use of new blade steels as well as heat treats developed just for knives and not just standard industrial heat treats recommended for dies and punches and hobs. When other companies begin using the steels introduced by Spyderco they often even copy the hardness Spyderco selected.

Shawn/Deadbox hero is well known for much of the same using steels no one else would touch like 15V and developing a heat treat that not only enhances the attributes needed for knives but also one that could be used by the people doing the heat treating on Spyderco knives for instance. When he speaks on the subject as above I am confident that is the way it is. :)
 
All your points are valid. You put up an excellent argument. I’m not an expert. I give the same argument when people say “CRK have the tightest tolerances ever”.

I have many Spyderco knives and I like them a lot. I also have many others that I enjoy.
 
Monofletch said:
All your points are valid. You put up an excellent argument. I’m not an expert. I give the same argument when people say “CRK have the tightest tolerances ever”.

I have many Spyderco knives and I like them a lot. I also have many others that I enjoy.
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Thank you for taking the time to share with everybody.

I don't think there's anything wrong with disagreeing with something somebody says.

Lot of the time we are just sharing our opinions here.
 
Monofletch said:
Your opinion.
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But it wasn’t just his opinion. It included many actual facts. If it was a vague, unsubstantiated opinion like we often see on the internet I might tend to agree but his post is filled with actual facts and is presented in a non aggressive, non challenging manner either directly or passively.
 
SwiftDream said:
But it wasn’t just his opinion. It included many actual facts. If it was a vague, unsubstantiated opinion like we often see on the internet I might tend to agree but his post is filled with actual facts and is presented in a non aggressive, non challenging manner either directly or passively.
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Well said and I do agree. My argument is only using “market leader for production manufacturers” is painting with a very large brush. I’m not doubting anything Spyderco has done. Maybe the quote should read…”market leader for production manufacturers in heat treat” might have been an easier pill to swallow.
 
Well, if this is about consistency in HT, I only have two brands with enough samples to make an educated guess:

Kabar has the HT for their 1095crovan down to a very nice point. My roughly 20ish Kabar-Becker knives perform steelwise all the same.
All the Victorinox SAK's that I bought over the course of my life behave virtually the same - Softer, stainless steel, easy to sharpen and holding a working edge for quite some time... The saw's steel is a bit harder, but still flexible enough to not break when used for a longer time...
 
oldmanwilly said:
Are you alluding to Benchmade in your second paragraph? If so, then you should feel free to type Benchmade out nice and clearly. I never had an issue with S30V from Spyderco, but one BM folder in S30V was enough to turn me off of the brand entirely. Save for a few proven users, I sold off my dozen or so BM folders after getting tired of the darn near gummy S30V on a Volli. It took forever to sharpen, chasing a stubborn burr, then it lost its edge almost immediately after light use. No amount of reprofiling helped dig into better steel.

I figured it was just a rare lemon until I learned their first few batches of Bailouts sported 3V that was intentionally run to lower hardness to avoid warranty claims. Just killed any enthusiasm I had for the brand. I heard that BM later acknowledged their practices and adjusted to offering their premium steels at appropriate hardness, and I have no reason at all to doubt that is the case today.

But I've never found an issue with steels from Spyderco, Hogue, Kershaw, Cold Steel, Mora, Protech, Boker, GEC, etc. and therefore tend to stick with those manufacturers.
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The Benchmade 3V problem was just a heat treat problem on that specific model. Nothing to do with warranty claims.

Usually they get it right. S30v kind of sucks in general, though.
 
SwiftDream said:
But it wasn’t just his opinion. It included many actual facts. If it was a vague, unsubstantiated opinion like we often see on the internet I might tend to agree but his post is filled with actual facts and is presented in a non aggressive, non challenging manner either directly or passively.
Click to expand...
Well said and I do agree. My argument is only using “market leader for production manufacturers” is painting with a very large brush. I’m not doubting anything Spyderco has done. Maybe the quote should read…”market leader for production manufacturers in heat treat” might have been an easier pill to swallow.
 
unwisefool said:
Carothers does a great job with heat treat, but maybe they are too small to be on the list?
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Carothers heat treat is great but I don’t think they do it in house. I have a Survive with the same Delta 3V heat treat stamp as my Field Knife.
 
Monofletch said:
Well said and I do agree. My argument is only using “market leader for production manufacturers” is painting with a very large brush. I’m not doubting anything Spyderco has done. Maybe the quote should read…”market leader for production manufacturers in heat treat” might have been an easier pill to swallow.
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With respect Sir it sounds to me that you have misunderstood what he (Deadbox Hero) is saying.
This thread is titled "Heat Treat, Done Right?" It is not titled "Production done right?"

All the comments and opinions in the thread are about heat treatment of various companies......not their production.

The OP (Shorttime) asked.........
Are there other companies that have a reputation for doing their processing correctly? I'd kind of like to know where to go to get it, and it's difficult to tell from the internet?
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Deadbox Hero answered........
Spyderco is currently the market leader for production manufacturers."
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referring to their (Spyderco's) heat treatment protocols.

Deadbox Hero is not saying that Spyderco is the leading production manufacturer. He is saying it is the leading manufacturer where heat treatment is concerned........and he goes on to provide facts to back that up.

For what it's worth where heat treatment is concerned, I agree with him. Spyderco has consistently led the way in using cutting edge (no pun intended) steels. ;)
 
The above is true. Spyderco has been a leader at bringing new or obscure steels to market and has done a solid job of presenting them with well balanced heat treatments. When you think about it, it is pretty impressive.
 
DMG said:
Carothers heat treat is great but I don’t think they do it in house. I have a Survive with the same Delta 3V heat treat stamp as my Field Knife.
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I believe the protocol was shared (or licensed?) with S!. There is a post from Nathan explaining it somewhere here on BF.
 
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