Heat treat oven build

Josh Rider

Josh Rider

Stuff maker
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Messages
2,428
I'm a little bit timid to ask this question here, but I'm going to do it anyway.

I had a kiln made for jewelry, but I sold it recently because it took half a day to bring it up to heat and that was just for stuff like w2, 1095, and 1084.

I really like 1095 and w2 and I'd like to do stainless steels.

I plan on sending a batch of blades to Peters here shortly, but I think I'm more interested in working one knife at a time right now. Plus I kind of like doing my own heat treat.

Some of the threads on ovens recently make me want to build one. Something with a small, but deep chamber 18" max for kitchen knives.

I have access to 220 so that would be a faster heating oven correct?

Here's my problem, I've read lots of threads with oven builds and I know my limitations with electronics.

I don't want to do anything dangerous. This stuff may seem easy to some of you guys with electronics experience, but its confusing to me. However I love learning to do stuff like this, like when I wired my own vfd and built the enclosure (with help of course).

What do you think would be the cost of building one compared to buying one?

Is there someone I could pay to give me a shopping list of things I need to buy and advise me along the way?

Thanks for the help and sorry for the long read:o
 
No one is likely to do your homework for you. There are dozens of great kiln build threads ( several running right now) with very detailed parts lists and instructions.

Be aware that you really need to know a bit about how these tools work and be familiar with electricity and electronics before you consider building one.

By far, the best choice is to save up and buy a commercial HT oven. It may end up only being a couple hundred more than a home build, and it is a tried and tested product backed up by tech support and a warranty.
 
It's really not that I want someone to do my homework for me, I just see variations with the things people are using in their builds. (I've read lots of these threads and watched a bunch of videos)Then there are others commenting about them being fire hazards, death traps, and also saying the factory kilns are inneficient.
I'm just thinking about whether to do a build or buy one.
 
I probably phrased that wrong. I was meaning that the info you need is specific to you, and you are the only one who has to figure it out.

As far as home built kilns being safe or dangerous, that is a factor of the skills and expertise of the builder. Guys like JT can weld, drill, wire, and understand the specifics of the whole process. Others make many mistakes. One current builder spent a lot of time building a kiln, and either made an error in math calculation the current draw, or has a short somewhere ... because it just blows the fuse a few seconds after he turns it on.
The first rule of building a kiln for HT at home is that you can't skimp or economize on much of anything. You have to have all the details that will be needed worked out before ordering anything. This will require Ohm's Law calculations and basic electrical theory at the minimum.

Unless you have a shop full of metal and electrical working tools, and are good at using them, buying a kiln is the way to go.


As far as commercial kilns being inefficient, the only place that applies is when someone gets a smaller 120 volt unit, and wants it to perform like a large 220 volt model.
An 18" knifemaker model that runs on 220 volts should be all most folks will ever need. An Evenheat KF-18 fits that well.
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/product_info.php?products_id=675
 
Being the builder in question, I can attest that there is a lot that goes into it. I ordered the right parts, double checked the math, and was careful in assembly, and I still have something going on. I'm sure I will figure it out, but the most important thing is Safety. While I have a short I believe, I am alive and ticking because I have never put myself in a position where I was the path to ground for electricity.
 
kdogmcg said:
Being the builder in question, I can attest that there is a lot that goes into it. I ordered the right parts, double checked the math, and was careful in assembly, and I still have something going on. I'm sure I will figure it out, but the most important thing is Safety. While I have a short I believe, I am alive and ticking because I have never put myself in a position where I was the path to ground for electricity.
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Kevin, I wasn't speaking about your build. Yours was one of many threads I looked at.
I think I'm going to have to save the money and buy, I just don't have the know how to do this myself.
 
I spent more on mine then I care to admit and would have been time and money ahead to just but one but I love building things and I wanted to make it how I wanted it.
 
JTknives said:
I spent more on mine then I care to admit and would have been time and money ahead to just but one but I love building things and I wanted to make it how I wanted it.
Click to expand...

I think this is the key, if you like building these kinds of things go for it- but not a great idea to do it as a way to save money. I built mine for the experience of it all and have to admit it gives me a great feeling each time I crank it up to do a heat treat!
 
Also the great thing about building what you need is if it breaks you know how to fix it. 99% of all my shop tools I made or heavily modified or rebuilt.
 
But that's a double edged sword, if it brakes you got no one to call and no warranty. Me personally will give that up for good ol home built equipment.
 
There's just a million things I want to learn how to do and it's hard to keep my ADD in check. I want to learn how to weld, forge, make damascus, use a lathe and this website is killing me because you get to see all of these different approaches to everything. And I stay poor because I want all of the tools!
 
Josh, I know you weren't talking about me. Stacy was. And I am glad he was. I am far from the example builder, and if someone can learn from my mistakes I am all for it. If I let pride get in the way, I would learn nothing around here. I ask questions because this forum is a great resource and I want good answers. I don't come here to get my ego stroked.
 
Josh Rider said:
There's just a million things I want to learn how to do and it's hard to keep my ADD in check. I want to learn how to weld, forge, make damascus, use a lathe and this website is killing me because you get to see all of these different approaches to everything. And I stay poor because I want all of the tools!
Click to expand...

The grass is always greener..... I'm lucky to be in California, where people offload old iron tools like toddlers clothes. Thought I would rebuild them, make my own, and sell the rest. But I'm still in a quagmire, of tools, waiting to get all the pieces together for the knifemaking. (As reference i finally acquired a 2x72 four months ago, still need a VFD and finances) Just finished school registration today, and judging from the line I was in from 9-12, it's a woman's job. This single father gig isn't helping me at all with what I thought would be a second job. Heck, I wasn't even ready to call myself a "knife maker" of any sorts, and a buddy paid for my membership upgrade, which kind of put me in an awkward position.

I think everyone has the same heartache getting into it. At least I hope so, I don't want to be the special case. :) And what about the very few that actually turn it into something worth the investment.... There is uter crap selling on instagram for several hundreds of dollars right now in comparison to those that try to do it right.
 
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i think the first thing to decide is how big a knife do you see yourself making. then set a budget, then shop. something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lindberg-He...-Controller-/322217926095?hash=item4b05af5dcf. for less than $800(if you can go pick it up) something that would work with blades up to 15" and temperature range that would do anything other than some high speed steels. go to eBay and look at kilns and lab furnaces. check Craig's List for local stuff. sometimes you can get a deal. by adding the words "knife" and "heat treat", manufacturers add $100s to the price.
I have ADD also. first thing i had to do was make basic decisions when i started. stock removal, high carbon steel, total length of 12" maximum, started out with craftsman 4x36 belt sander. found a Paragon E9 kiln for $300 and got started.
scott
 
The other thing to consider is how many knives do you make or plan on making. At the cost of having knives heat treated for you it would take a good number to pay for an oven. But what you get with professional heat treating is much more then oven time. You get the correct quench median as well as liquid nitrogen treatment as well as RC testing. To do all this in your shop adds much more cost then just a oven. Not trying to discourage you at all but help guide you to spend the money where it's needed most and can do the most good.
 
JTknives said:
The other thing to consider is how many knives do you make or plan on making. At the cost of having knives heat treated for you it would take a good number to pay for an oven. But what you get with professional heat treating is much more then oven time. You get the correct quench median as well as liquid nitrogen treatment as well as RC testing. To do all this in your shop adds much more cost then just a oven. Not trying to discourage you at all but help guide you to spend the money where it's needed most and can do the most good.
Click to expand...

The RC testing has been one of the most important things I've considered. The more I think about it, the more I think I'll outsource until I have enough budgeted to buy a hardness tester, quench plates, a dewar, stainless foil, I don't even know what else.

I like the idea of doing everything in house, but I'll save that for a later time (if ever).
 
Josh Rider said:
The RC testing has been one of the most important things I've considered. The more I think about it, the more I think I'll outsource until I have enough budgeted to buy a hardness tester, quench plates, a dewar, stainless foil, I don't even know what else. I like the idea of doing everything in house, but I'll save that for a later time (if ever).
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as i said, make a plan as to what kind of knives you want to make to get started, then buy what you need. a dewar and stainless foil are only needed for stainless. quench plates you can make with with 1/2" aluminum flat bar. go talk to the nearest machine shop, they will probably let you dig in the scrap and might do you hardness testing for little or no cost. as i said, Shop. eBay and craig's list are a good starting point.
scott
 
Scott I appreciate the comments. I've been making knives for a couple years now, just only using 1095, w2, and 1084.
My first kiln was found on Craigslist, but I sold it because it took forever to get back to temps once I started normalizing and stress relieving. Heat treating a couple blades took the better part of a day.

I've been looking for a hardness tester on CL, but I'm more leaning towards sending all heat treat out except the steels I can heat treat in my atlas forge.

Speaking of which, I built a two brick forge when I started out but this atlas forge is freaking awesome.
It gets to heat FAST!
 
Take a look at the plans on British Blades. I built it and once ifigured out the control it worked fine. About 350 bucks.
TJ Smith
 
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