Heat Treat Question

Cypress Creek Knives

Cypress Creek Knives

CCK
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Dec 15, 2010
Messages
648
Hello all, today I heat treated my 1095 knife. I quenched it in a mixture of canola oil(160F) and acetone. (I read of that concoction on another forum.) The blade skates a file but the tang does not. I am wondering if that is a problem. It won't bother me unless it will effect the knife in use. All information is appreciated. Thanks everyone
 
ok so first i guess the blade got hard what temp did you quench from ? soft tanges are normal if you miss the curve or if you dont put the tang into the quenchant.

now for the elephant in the room DONT DO THAT QUENCH AGAIN acetone is highly flammable. guys have been known to catch fire to plain oil in a quench takn let alone the addition of acetone.
 
I was worried about the acetone too, but the ratio is 6:1 so there is not much to worry about.
 
The acetone will have a higher vapor pressure than the canola oil so it could outgas at an elevated temperature, meaning you have a high partial pressure of acetone above the canola oil. given the right mixture of air/acetone you get a flash-boom. Someone is playing a joke on you-the acetone is not necessary. You are lowering the viscosity of the canola oil by heating it.
A softer tang is no problem at all.
 
I was worried about the acetone too, but the ratio is 6:1 so there is not much to worry about.
 
Bali-Flipper32 said:
I was worried about the acetone too, but the ratio is 6:1 so there is not much to worry about.
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I do not know how fast it will outgas at 160 F. But, if you can smell the acetone at that temperature, it is evaporating faster than the canola oil. And it presents a flash hazard. If you decide to continue to use it then run a fan to dissipate the fumes-just my opinion.
 
Bali-Flipper32 said:
I was worried about the acetone too, but the ratio is 6:1 so there is not much to worry about.
Click to expand...

You repeated this, so I assume you are a materials engineer that has done extensive research on the flash point of mixed oils and solvents???? No?


NO quenchant should have a high volatility. Also, 130°F is the top range for quenching. 160°F is too high. If your blade hardened fully, then the softer tang is not a problem.


Acetone is used as an additive to change the burnability of canola and other waste oils ( to make it burn better) for running WOVs.
Acetone is also used by some to remove paraffin's and other waxes from the oil, and make the oil thinner for use as a quenchant. This is separated/decanted/precipitated and evaporated at about 160°F. Once the acetone is gone, the thinner oil used at 130°F......without the acetone in the mix. I believe this may be what you read. If you don't mind, could you post a link to the info you read?

You can read all sorts of stuff on the internet. Not all of it is good advice. Things that sound off alarm bells bear checking out with experienced folks before trying them. I regularly see suggestions for quenching in kerosene and diesel fuel.........which just sounds dumb to me.
 
It was a knife makers forum of some sort. The guys on that forum knew what they were talking about. If I can find the link I'll post it. There was no acetone smell when I quenched so there isn't a lot of vapor. And acetone burns, it won't blow up so I don't think I have much to worry about. I've got a cover for my quenchant so if it does flare up I can smother it. I have taken all precautions and I am not worried about using it.
 
Please keep in mind the comments above are expressions of concern for safety. You may have taken precautions, but a new knifemaker may fail to do so. There are few enough knifemakers we don't wish to lose any. Jess
 
Do not use acetone again. There is no reason to use it, and every reason NOT to. It doesn't matter where you read it, it isn't correct procedure.
 
Bali-Flipper32 said:
The guys on that forum knew what they were talking about.
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No, I'm afraid it appears they don't.

Seems like this is a path you're insisting on following, so this next bit isn't meant for you, however there's lots of folks that read these forums and I'd prefer it if they smelled this BS and didn't step in it.

ACETONE IS NOT AN ACCEPTABLE QUENCHANT FOR HEATED STEEL, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, WHETHER IT'S MIXED WITH OTHER THINGS OR NOT.

Sorry of interrupting your thread. Have at it!


EDIT: If the thread you're talking about is the one on Fogg's forum, you didn't read enough of it. Here's my favorite bit from my friend Alan Longmire:

"I know YOU know better, I just wanted to make sure that no aspiring nimrod took the idea to the seemingly logical conclusion of "Hey, I bet pure acetone would be a SUPER fast quench!"

The explosion would be fun to watch from a distance, though. "
 
I don't think it was fogg's forum because I read the entire thread and nobody disagreed with him. I really didn't put much acetone in at all, just a little bit. I wanted to further reduce the viscosity of the oil. I'm not insisting on using the same mixture again, but I am going to use it until I need new oil, no sense in wasting it. It has probably all dissipated by now anyway. I am using an old barbecue grill with a hair dryer. When I get more time i am going to build a good forge.
 
Gotcha. You're probably right, it has likely dissipated by now. I get where you were going. Stick with just canola oil until you can afford to drop some scratch on a fast oil, or consider a different steel. I started with 1095. Wish I hadn't!!!
 
I would like to get parks 50 but I don't want 5 gallons. I might test my luck with a water quench
 
I believe the discussion was on bladesmith'sforum about six years ago. I don't recall the entire discussion, but IIRC, not everyone was in love with the idea. Again, just because someone said it on the internet, or did it in a YouTube video, doesn't make it a good idea.
 
Bali-Flipper32 said:
I would like to get parks 50 but I don't want 5 gallons. I might test my luck with a water quench
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The five gallons of Parks 50 was very possibly the single best investment I made in heat treating 1095, and every other water or oil quenching steel I've used. There's no such thing as too much quench oil!
 
Matthew Gregory said:
The five gallons of Parks 50 was very possibly the single best investment I made in heat treating 1095, and every other water or oil quenching steel I've used. There's no such thing as too much quench oil!
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I agree 100% I spent nearly $200.00 on my fast oil in Canada, but zero broken blades, consistent results, and great hamons. Well worth it.
 
i picked up 3 gal at one point and found a guuy splitting an order of 5 gal so i think i have 5.5 gal of parks 50. i should get a slightly slower oil for my O1 but i have not cracked a blade yet.

if you are torch heating the blade the oil you use will be jsut fine for you no need ot add anything. just know your not maxing out the steel as far as HT goes
 
If you are going to get parks 50 how many blades are you ever planning on heat treating at a time? I try to have a half dozen or so blades ready to HT to justify heating the forge just for the ht. By the time i have finished 4 or 5 the oil (about 4.5 gallons of Parks 50) is too hot to do the last one or two blades. I remove about a gallon and replace it with room temp oil. This brings it down to a workable range again. Also the 5 gallons will not go bad if you only do one at a time. Then you can always do like Lloyd mentioned and sell a few gallons to make up the difference. I really recommend taking the plunge and buying the Parks.
 
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