Heat treating

D

dodo s

Joined
Apr 2, 2016
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Hey everyone, i am new to this forum.... i have asked this question on another forum and also did some research but cant find a good solution. So all the blades i have done up to this point have been 1084 heat treated in a propane forge. So i ordered a even heat oven last week. And i have access to liquid nitrogen for cryo. So i want to start with stainless and just received a order of 440c. Anyway i have the 1 in thick aluminum plates but i also have a big bucket of parks 50 quenching oil. a couple of people that have been given me good advice so far say that any steel (including 440c) that can be heat treated in air or with plates can also be done in oil and some come out better in oil. So as soon as the oven comes (i already have 2 knives profiled) i want to plate quench one and oil quench the other followed by the cryo and tempering to see wich one comes out better or if there is no noticeable difference. problem is if you wrap the knives in the foil packet how do you get it out of the packet quick enough to get it too the oil? the people that suggested the oil have a argon intake into there oven so the foil packet isnt a problem. But i assume that some one some where has come up with a tool, technique, or method to get the packet off quick, The best idea i have hear is a razor blade attached to a steel rod so when you open the oven you can reach in and cut the packet open before it leaves the oven. i am not sure how good that would work and even then once you open the door does it still loose its heat quick or is there enough residual heat in there to keep it good and hot for a minute or 2 while you cut and open the packet whiles its still in the oven......i would love to hear ANY ideas on this thanks guys!
 
hey everyone i asked this question in another area of the forum and some one suggested to ask it here so here it is

Hey everyone, i am new to this forum.... i have asked this question on another forum and also did some research but cant find a good solution. So all the blades i have done up to this point have been 1084 heat treated in a propane forge. So i ordered a even heat oven last week. And i have access to liquid nitrogen for cryo. So i want to start with stainless and just received a order of 440c. Anyway i have the 1 in thick aluminum plates but i also have a big bucket of parks 50 quenching oil. a couple of people that have been given me good advice so far say that any steel (including 440c) that can be heat treated in air or with plates can also be done in oil and some come out better in oil. So as soon as the oven comes (i already have 2 knives profiled) i want to plate quench one and oil quench the other followed by the cryo and tempering to see wich one comes out better or if there is no noticeable difference. problem is if you wrap the knives in the foil packet how do you get it out of the packet quick enough to get it too the oil? the people that suggested the oil have a argon intake into there oven so the foil packet isnt a problem. But i assume that some one some where has come up with a tool, technique, or method to get the packet off quick, The best idea i have hear is a razor blade attached to a steel rod so when you open the oven you can reach in and cut the packet open before it leaves the oven. i am not sure how good that would work and even then once you open the door does it still loose its heat quick or is there enough residual heat in there to keep it good and hot for a minute or 2 while you cut and open the packet whiles its still in the oven......i would love to hear ANY ideas on this thanks guys!
 
HAhA sorry i guess i copy and pasted right back on the same thread....still trying to figure things out i guess.....
 
ohh just looked again says moved? maybe not either way sorry for posting it twice
 
Try plate quenching your 1084/1095 blades and oil quenching all your stainless. No reason to make things harder than they sould be.
 
Sorry if i was short, continue to do your research. For some reason beginers think oil quenching is "easy" and the best way to go, and it is for simple high carbon steels. However for stainless, with the right equipment and info, plate quenching is just as easy and cleaner. Sometimes it's hard to break the mindset of quenching a knife in oil.
 
If you're soaking the blade while wrapped in foil you are much better off just doing a plate quench while still wrapped in the foil. When you try to remove the steel from the foil at the high temps. necessary for air hardening steels it is just about impossible to get it out of the foil and into the oil without warping the blade if you do it fast enough for the oil to make a difference.
People make EXCELLENT knives every day by plate quenching. If oil quenching air hardening steels made a better blade everybody would be doing it.
 
Alright thanks guys, i haven't ruled out plate quenching at all i have read lots of good stuff on it. But i did want to do a comparison just for my own piece of mind, Ja Baudin.....when i first started looking into this yeh i will admit i was a little turned off by the plates because i have done 20-25 blades (1084) in oil with good results, i have gotten past that point tho as i keep reading more good things about the plate, as i said i would like to try both just so i have a physical knife (s) i can test. However the problem of getting out of the foil seems to be a big obstacle, however i found this stuff on brownells (usa knife maker has similar but the temp rating isnt high enough) brownells goes to 2300 F (link below) Has anyone used this stuff? if it does a good job it can take the place of the foil, however seems good on paper but sometime that doesnt translate to real world i am curios if anyone has had success with this stuff.....thanks guys!

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...accessories/anti-scale-coating-prod23076.aspx
 
alright listen if any one was thinking it and not saying it by all means say it....all i was going on with the parks 50 is it was a suggestion from someone making knives for 20+ years now, as i said he uses oil but he also uses argon in the oven so he doesnt need the foil as the argon protects the steel from oxygen, obviously he has goten good results with it or he wouldnt still be doing it after all the time he has been making blades, however there are always other factors in real life yes there are general rules to what works but one may find a way to make something work that another doesnt.....that is the main reason i asked if that wasnt the case i would just do what he did and keep it moving but i find its better to listen to many opinions when trying to educate your self on things like HT, grinding, fit ups....alot of this stuff there are many teqniques that achieve (or dont) similar results, so by all means i want to hear everyones opinion
 
The best I can tell you are looking for 440c heat treat recipe? I wrap in foil and double fold the edges. Heat the oven to 1400 degrees. After it stabilizes at 1400 insert the blades with the edge up. Once the oven gets back to 1400 let it soak for 10-15 minutes. Then go full ramp to 1900. Once it reaches 1900 let them soak for 30 mins. After 30 mins pull them out and plate quench in the foil. Once they've cooled enough to handle them you can cry on them. Then let them warm back up to room temp and temper at 400 for 57-58. You can oil quench but you will need a different oil.
 
oil quench can work jsut not with parks 50 i think even AAAmight be too fast
i foil wrap my SS blades and plate quench then cryo then temperr but thats jsut how i do things
 
Dodo s, just leave your 440C blade in the packet when you quench in oil. But don't put any combustibles in your packet because they will cause your packet to balloon out and you won't get a good quench. Dust your blade with a light coating of talcum powder to keep the foil from sticking to your blade. Triple fold your packet seems and make sure they're tight.

Jesse
 
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