Heavy-bladed, Light-handled Wilderness Chopping Knives

Thanks for the comments and the knife names to research. Thanks too for the link to the Leuku Blog... beautiful blades.

Pity about that broken knife. I don't know why that particular one broke of course. But to my way of thinking, if a plain knife blade is relatively hard to sharpen with a good file, then it is possible it may be a bit more brittle than a blade that is easily cut with a file. Im not a metallurgist, but if I were going to make a chopping and levering knife, I think I'd be inclined to use a medium carbon steel tempered to act like a car leaf spring. That is a sad picture.
 
geargeek said:
I have found that a hidden tang knife transmits less shock to your hand when chopping, which means you don't get as tired after a lot of work. Of course, a wooden handle hatchet is even better in this regard...
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Also it puts more weight forward, which allows you to reduce the total weight of the piece while maintaining the same degree of chopping effectiveness.
 
I totally agree about the advantage of having weight forward. And I'm a little bewildered when someone picks up a handle-heavy knife and says in an expert tone "Great balance".

I've been thinking some more about that broken 'golok' and my rather vague initial response to it.

I didn't want to respond in such a way that I appeared to be overly critical. So I want to state that i'm not qualified to speak as an expert on such matters, and I've never even handled one of these knives. But I do own a smaller model of knife from the same company, and I like it.

If I take a fairly new file and try to sharpen the edge of my BR Gameskeeper, the file does not easily bite into the blade. But if I use the same file on the edge of my perfectly adequate Mora knife clone, the file does bite in..... as it does on the edge of my Cold Steel Bushman. This indicates to me that the steel in the BR is relatively hard. And in my experience 'hard' can be an indicator that the same bit of steel is likely to be more brittle than some. Not always perhaps, but quite possibly.

There are other factors suggested by the image of that broken blade. Things look to be fairly cold. This would mean that any wood lying around outside is going to be possibly a little harder if frozen. Plus I believe that steel can become even more brittle at lower temperatures.

The blade on that knife does not seem to be wide enough for a chopping blade. A structural engineer would be able to explain to us how a deeper beam of the same wall thickness is significantly stronger than a slightly shallower one.... and the same thing applies to a knife blade that is used in chopping mode. Even if that blade was tempered in such a way to have a gradation of hardness from the edge to the spine (with a softer, thus less brittle spine), there isn't much distance to 'taper' that heat treatment.

And I can't be sure by looking at the picture, but the grind on that knife appears, pretty much, to have the whole blade tapering from the edge to the spine. Instinctively I feel that a chopper should have a good portion of parallel thickness for strength.

Anyway, I've got that off my chest now. I was lying in bed thinking about it. In summary, while that knife is likely to hold a good edge.... and while it might be great for clearing light twigs and grass.... it does not look, to me, like the ideal chopper design for heavier work. This does not mean that I think all knives made by the same people are unsuitable.
 
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coote said:
I totally agree about the advantage of having weight forward. And I'm a little bewildered when someone picks up a handle-heavy knife and says in an expert tone "Great balance".

I've been thinking some more about that broken 'golok' and my rather vague initial response to it.

I didn't want to respond in such a way that I appeared to be overly critical. So I want to state that i'm not qualified to speak as an expert on such matters, and I've never even handled one of these knives. But I do own a smaller model of knife from the same company, and I like it.

If I take a fairly new file and try to sharpen the edge of my BR Gameskeeper, the file does not easily bite into the blade. But if I use the same file on the edge of my perfectly adequate Mora knife clone, the file does bite in..... as it does on the edge of my Cold Steel Bushman. This indicates to me that the steel in the BR is relatively hard. And in my experience 'hard' can be an indicator that the same bit of steel is likely to be more brittle than some. Not always perhaps, but quite possibly.

There are other factors suggested by the image of that broken blade. Things look to be fairly cold. This would mean that any wood lying around outside is going to be possibly a little harder if frozen. Plus I believe that steel can become even more brittle at lower temperatures.

The blade on that knife does not seem to be wide enough for a chopping blade. A structural engineer would be able to explain to us how a deeper beam of the same wall thickness is significantly stronger than a slightly shallower one.... and the same thing applies to a knife blade that is used in chopping mode. Even if that blade was tempered in such a way to have a gradation of hardness from the edge to the spine (with a softer, thus less brittle spine), there isn't much distance to 'taper' that heat treatment.

And I can't be sure by looking at the picture, but the grind on that knife appears, pretty much, to have the whole blade tapering from the edge to the spine. Instinctively I feel that a chopper should have a good portion of parallel thickness for strength.

Anyway, I've got that off my chest now. I was lying in bed thinking about it. In summary, while that knife is likely to hold a good edge.... and while it might be great for clearing light twigs and grass.... it does not look, to me, like the ideal chopper design for heavier work. This does not mean that I think all knives made by the same people are unsuitable.
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I agree with most of the above, with the notable exception of the parallel thickness comment. A FFG allows for a stiff spine but thin edge, and does not adversely affect sectional density over the edge.
 
22-rimfire said:
If you want something fairly blade heavy, the new Condor Pack Golok might satisfy your chopping needs. It is quite the hog of a knife. Keep thinking it might actually be a better overall blade with a slightly thinner blade stock.
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I'm waiting impatiently for FortyTwoBlades to get these in...did I mention the impatient part?

Condor Tool & Knife CTK251-10HC Lochnessmuk Survival Knife might work as well.
 
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Balldboy said:
I'm waiting impatiently for FortyTwoBlades to get these in...did I mention the impatient part?

Condor Tool & Knife CTK251-10HC Lochnessmuk Survival Knife might work as well.
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Hee hee yeah I'm impatiently awaiting them, too! :D I wouldn't call the Lochnessmuk light-handled, though. It's a weight forward balance, but it's balance is a compromise between chopping and knife tasks. It's really more of a knife than a big chopper, but robust and hefty enough to be used for many of those tasks. Very compact, too!
 
Here's my go-to big chopper- Swamp Rat Battle Rat. A great blade in a great sheath...

IMG_3784.jpg

IMG_2077.jpg


This thread did finally push me over for my first machete though- ordered the Mora 333 from 42 a little bit a go. I have a mental block that machetes aren't for the Northeast...we'll see!
 
Ravaillac said:
You may want to have a look at the Hukari from Taiter factory in Finland.

View attachment 282755

I hear it used in Finnish military.

Good points:
it's pretty light (500g about a pound), thanks to hidden tang.
it's quite inexpensive, goes for like 45€
thicker than a Leuku

Bad points:
Fit and finish is very rough (ok, that's a minor problem)
Somewhat lacks punch (being light)
Steel is not so great and pretty soft
you can find some broken one pic.

Still it's light (will retaining more puch than your average leuku), cheap and many finnish people seem to consider it a good beater.
Probably worth a try.

http://www.taiter.fi/hukari.html
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Hey Ravaillac, I was quite interested in your picture of the hukari, because it definitely looks solid, so I did a search:

IMG_0089.jpg
(from http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?29690-my-precioussss/page3, post 45)

Definitely not encouraging, to start off with, although I know it can be an inclusion in the steel, etc.

I'm wondering if anybody here has any first hand experience with them.

Doc
 
Balldboy, I bought my Condor Pack Golok at the Blade Show last weekend. You might take a look at New Graham. Not trying to pick vendors here, but I was just at their website and they have it.
 
rpn said:
Here's my go-to big chopper- Swamp Rat Battle Rat. A great blade in a great sheath...

IMG_3784.jpg

IMG_2077.jpg


This thread did finally push me over for my first machete though- ordered the Mora 333 from 42 a little bit a go. I have a mental block that machetes aren't for the Northeast...we'll see!
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You should try using an Ontario heavy duty machete for forestry then. You might be surprised at how many tasks it can handle. Being able to clear weeds and vines, prune, and chop all with one tool can come in very handy when managing a woodlot.
 
22-rimfire said:
Balldboy, I bought my Condor Pack Golok at the Blade Show last weekend. You might take a look at New Graham. Not trying to pick vendors here, but I was just at their website and they have it.
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No worries on waiting...
I'm going home with the date the brung me to the dance.
I saw my first Condors at Baryonyx Knife Co. and he's been mucho helpful.
 
DOC-CANADA said:
Hey Ravaillac, I was quite interested in your picture of the hukari, because it definitely looks solid, so I did a search:

Definitely not encouraging, to start off with, although I know it can be an inclusion in the steel, etc.

I'm wondering if anybody here has any first hand experience with them.

Doc
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Yes, I know the pic, if you read carefully I mentioned it, although wasn't very clear ("you can find some broken one pic.")
Difficult to say if this was the occasional bad one, or if this is more common.

I have one and tried it a bit and I didn't experience major problem.
It somehow lacked punch, (but then I'm more into axes) and I had a ding on the edge fairly quickly, although problem disappeared after some sharpening.
Then it's not too expensive and finish is such you won't bother throwing it around.

There are plenty of youtube videos, one being quite scary and many people seem to like it. Then, arguably, many people don't have a clue.

There was a bf user from Finland named Elen that seemed fairly knowledgeable and seemed to like it:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/500955-Best-tool-for-cutting-small-branches/page2

You might also consider asking this on bushcraftfinland.
 
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Balldboy said:
No worries on waiting...
I'm going home with the date the brung me to the dance.
I saw my first Condors at Baryonyx Knife Co. and he's been mucho helpful.
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LOL I appreciate the thought! I'll be first to tell you that I won't be insulted if you get tired of waiting and buy elsewhere, though! I know how "itchy" waiting for new toys can be! :D That being said, the nice thing about the ones I'll be getting in is they'll be from the second wave of production.
 
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svord KIWI machete and a Busse basic 10. The svord is light overal by comparison, but it's heavy enough to be a decent chopper and the handle is very light being made of polypropylene. It comes across (to me at least) as the perfect escrima machete, seemingly perfect for jungle use but possibly a bit light for hardwoods. The basic 10 is heavy enough that it wouldn't be great for use on light brush, but it fits the bill as blade heavy, handle light.
 
coote said:
Good stuff. Up until now, I don't think I was aware of what a Junglas was. That is a big sheath knife. I'm guessing that at 33 ozs it might be a bit slower to swing. Beautiful though.... and with a decent sheath.
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Coote, the Junglas is actually only 22.5 oz. It is a pleasure to swing as the balance is incredible. It's very, very tough and the sheath is the absolute best I've seen or used. I like that it is a great chopper and a useful machete. In my part of Texas, I don't need a huge chopper, but chopping small limbs for shelter or trail clearing is important. I could also use a machete type blade for clearing brush or cactus, which, at times, comes in the form of an impenetrable wall. You need some reach when cutting that stuff. The Junglas is just about a perfect option to handle all of this IMHO. Machetes work well and can be quite strong, but usually aren't bomb-proof, which I want. I've seen local oak and mesquite totally ruin the edges of weaker blades. I know I can baton a Junglas through a rock hard log without worry. Realistic need or not, I want that comfort level. I believe you would be thrilled with a Junglas and it's sheath is a perfect platform for a baldric slung personal survival kit. I have the opposite problem though, I prefer the khukuri shape. I just haven't found the perfect khukuri for my stated needs yet. I have many, many khukuri, but the CS Gurkha comes closest to fulfilling all my needs. If only it had a full handled-sized tang:( Most khuks are too thick and heavy. I'm still holding out that Becker or ESEE might produce a khuk. Take care.
 
@jdk1

Becker HAS/does make a kukri....the RBK is a true kukri, and the BK4 is a somewhat kukri style.

The RBK is discontinued though, still can be found on auction sites or here on the Exchange.
 
thrillbilly said:
@jdk1

Becker HAS/does make a kukri....the RBK is a true kukri, and the BK4 is a somewhat kukri style.

The RBK is discontinued though, still can be found on auction sites or here on the Exchange.
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Awaiting the RE-release of the RBK:) I wouldn't pay the collector's price for a user, especially when the CS Gurkha works so well, but could use a few changes. The Machax is interesting, but a wee bit small and light. Still growing on me though. It actually seems perfect for what the OP wanted, other than the obvious khuk shape he wanted to avoid. Take care.
 
jdk1 said:
Awaiting the RE-release of the RBK:) I wouldn't pay the collector's price for a user, especially when the CS Gurkha works so well, but could use a few changes. The Machax is interesting, but a wee bit small and light. Still growing on me though. It actually seems perfect for what the OP wanted, other than the obvious khuk shape he wanted to avoid. Take care.
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The 1 and 6 is getting re-released (to the best of my knowledge but I dont work for KaBar so I cant say for certain) in 2013 or so the rumors go. The RBK is tricky because it was a collaboration and Mr. R is regrettably deceased now. I am not very optimistic it will ever be reborn...but I hope it does, a beautiful blade, well-balanced and it chops like a fiend.

The 4 is a powerhouse for it's size...I like mine but I tend to favor the straight blades. The kuk is a style I just aint learned to love yet LOL
 
Thanks everyone for taking the time to tell me your experiences and good ideas.

There are some beautiful knives out there.
 
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