Hello everyone, I own a kershaw, not sure of exact model, but the blade is made of 8cr13mov steel. I can bring the blade to a decent shave sharp. (I have almost no arm or leg hair on my left side.) But I can not get it to tree top. I do not own a strop, but instead have a very old very fine stone that I use for "finishing". Is it possible for the 8cr13mov to get to tree top sharp?
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Hello new guy with sharpening
- Thread starter Coondog27
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Yes nearly any steel you can get to be tree top sharp unless the heat treat is just that bad,which in this case I highly doubt that it is. Getting a knife to tree top hairs requires a very sharp edge,this means that one fine stone is probably not going to get it to this point.What is your sharpening process? As in what grit are your stones and what kind of abrasive are they,it's probably best to post pictures so we know exactly what you have. In my experience with my edge pro in order for me to get hairs to tree top I need to go up to at least 3k tapes and then strop on my knives plus strop block,at this point it tree tops hairs but not as easily as I would like. If I go to my 6k it then tree tops pretty well. I would certainly recommend you get a strop,this alone will probably not get your edge to tree top hairs as you will more than likely need finer stones. This was just my experience on my edge pro,i'm sure other will have different results as my sharpening and tree topping technique needs some work.
-Raven
-Raven
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I don't know the grits off the top of my head. I have a Smith's two stone set. Has a larger grey one, and a small white one. I usually just touch the blade up with the white stone, and then use the side of a leather belt a little, probably 40 swipes each way. I don't have any paste on the belt. It isn't anywhere near a mirror finish, and I do it all free hand.
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That combo of stones is not going to get you tree topping sharp they are just too coarse,that is good you know how to free hand this opens up many options for further stone progression. I personally do not freehand so I would ask someone with tons of freehand experience on the this forum such as HeavyHanded among other great members. However I still know a bit about free handed stones and recommend you pick up a coarse dmt,extra fine dmt,spyderco uf and a knives plus strop block,this combo of stone should get your knife to tree top hairs. From what I have heard the jump from coarse to extra fine is not to big,but again I do not freehand so I ask another member with experience.This kit is kind of expensive for some but in my mind is worth it,there may be another cheaper way to get a tree topping edge I am just not aware of it,another good question to ask a member with free hand sharpening experience.One of the greatest resources is this forum,look through this section of the forum and you will find more information than you know what to do with in regard to sharpening. I hope I have been of some help, if you have any other questions just ask.
-Raven
-Raven
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Hi
I read all the time that it doesn't take high grits, for example
- can get hair popping off a 220 DMT too. What is false is to think only fine grits produce sharp edges.
- 120 grit belt, then to a trizact 220 equivalent then a 320 equivalent trizact, ... can get hair popping with belt grinder.
- An edge can be hair-popping or shaving-sharp at virtually any finish from 150-grit and up
- I'm not saying it can't happen but getting hair popping from a 280 grit fine Sic stone is not that easy. However, If stropped using some of the fine Sic dust on a leather strop then hair popping is fairly easy.
I'm sure better stones might make it easier, and there are certain techniques that help... but I don't know yet
there is always talk about using lubrication and light strokes when micro-beveling on stones, or just using abrasive compound and stropping
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Hi
I read all the time that it doesn't take high grits, for example
I haven't been able to get tree topping yet, but I've just gotten face shaving sharp ... turns out flat stones help
- can get hair popping off a 220 DMT too. What is false is to think only fine grits produce sharp edges.
- 120 grit belt, then to a trizact 220 equivalent then a 320 equivalent trizact, ... can get hair popping with belt grinder.
- An edge can be hair-popping or shaving-sharp at virtually any finish from 150-grit and up
- I'm not saying it can't happen but getting hair popping from a 280 grit fine Sic stone is not that easy. However, If stropped using some of the fine Sic dust on a leather strop then hair popping is fairly easy.
I'm sure better stones might make it easier, and there are certain techniques that help... but I don't know yet
there is always talk about using lubrication and light strokes when micro-beveling on stones, or just using abrasive compound and stropping
Are they tree topping or just shaving? As there is a very big difference between the two,I can get hair popping sharp edges off my atoma 140 but that doesn't mean that it tree tops hairs.
-Raven
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They're tree topping, no touching the skin, thats what they mean by hair popping
When I first got scrape shaving, hair would get taught/loaded then bounce, and I thought, did it just pop? Wait a minute, what exactly do they mean by that ... its pretty much above the skin tree topping gone at first touch
If you look at links I quoted, a lot of them have 9000 posts or more ... posted pics/videos of feats of sharpness
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If you're popping hairs etc you're close. Might try just wrapping some newspaper around your coarse stone and stropping it for 40-50 passes or so.
You can get there with the stones you have, it will get easier should you get finer stones. You could also put some honing compound on the belt and lightly strop.
For me the progression goes from popping hairs, to having them silently pile up on the edge, pre tree-topping where it begins to strip small curls off the hairs, tree topping where the hairs pile up on the blade, hanging hair whittling, hanging hair cleanly severing. None of these tests guarantee the edge will perform any random task better then you're getting now, but will be evidence of good technique. I'd consider getting a knife you're not attached to when experimenting with technique or you can pull a lot of steel off a perfectly sharp knife just learning.
A lot of it has to do with the hair in question as well, my edges will treetop leg hair well before they will tree top my arm hair.
Martin
You can get there with the stones you have, it will get easier should you get finer stones. You could also put some honing compound on the belt and lightly strop.
For me the progression goes from popping hairs, to having them silently pile up on the edge, pre tree-topping where it begins to strip small curls off the hairs, tree topping where the hairs pile up on the blade, hanging hair whittling, hanging hair cleanly severing. None of these tests guarantee the edge will perform any random task better then you're getting now, but will be evidence of good technique. I'd consider getting a knife you're not attached to when experimenting with technique or you can pull a lot of steel off a perfectly sharp knife just learning.
A lot of it has to do with the hair in question as well, my edges will treetop leg hair well before they will tree top my arm hair.
Martin
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For 8Cr, Autosol, or MAAS metal polish on paper over stone (like HH suggested) will help. My first tree top (if memory serves me right 
) was using balance strop (search thread with this title), Autosol is quite similar to the compound used on balance strop.
) was using balance strop (search thread with this title), Autosol is quite similar to the compound used on balance strop.
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The 400 grit stone should be capable of bringing just about any steel to the point of at least slicing (if not push cutting) newsprint. I would skip the 1200 grit altogether until you can achieve that level of sharpness with the 400 grit stone. It's just a matter of technique and practice. Very very light strokes at the end.
I got to really watching my blade across the stone, and it seems as if the stone is dished. I've had this stone for sometime (before I knew anything about sharpening) and it appears to be dished. Could this be part of my problem? I notice that my blade is always sharpest at the curve of the blade going to the tip. I am assuming that it is making full contact with the stone, where as the heel is not?
Use a straight edge (a ruler for example) to check it. Check both directions and slide the straight edge along the whole length (side to side and front to back) to see if you have any dishing. Check the diagonals too if you want to be super complete about it. A dished stone is definitely harder to get good results from; much harder.
Years ago I found that to be true: Curved part seems sharpest. Now the whole blade seems about the same sharpness to me. I think the perception of greater sharpness in the curve is because less of the blade touches whatever you are trying to cut, shave, etc. So the contact area is diminished, which multiplies the force at that area, making the curve seem sharper. This may or may not be related to what you are experiencing.
You also might not be hitting the entire blade equally. Is part of the blade near the tip just as sharp as the heel? Here's a brilliant video illustrating the technique to get uniform contact across the entire edge. This will help you if you have any problems with the angle at any part of the blade due to the curve.
[video=youtube;JFhUXgYS0Os]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFhUXgYS0Os[/video]
Brian.
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Chris "Anagarika";15085890 said:For 8Cr, Autosol, or MAAS metal polish on paper over stone (like HH suggested) will help. My first tree top (if memory serves me right
Chris, I remember that blunt cut said he used the USA knife maker compound, a coarser white compound, likely in the 1200 grit range. I have never seen any analysis of its abrasive size. So the Autosol that you mentioned, is that a coarser type polisher too? 1200 grit, approx. 10 micron or so?