HELP: BusseCombat vs. SOG

X

XCaveman

Joined
Dec 29, 2005
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2
I've spent quite a while looking at Busse's new Hell Razor (which is a BEAUTIFUL knife), but am still having trouble justifying the $287 pricetag. I recently happened upon reviews of the SOG Seal 2000 and was impressed, but being as I am generally new to high-end knives, especially fixed blades, I was hoping to get some advice.

Can someone please explain to me:
What are the pros and cons of each knife? Does the SEAL 2000 have a full tang, and is it really that important to have a full tang? How does one go about comparing the quality of steel in each? Considering the SOG won the award from the Navy Seals, is there a reason why the Busse knife (and Busse knives in general) is almost twice the price?

Any and all help would be much appreciated. Thanks a lot!
 
I might be able to help you out here. I have 2 SOG 2000's. It is indeed a very nice knife. I wouldn't necessarily feel unprepared having it hanging off my leg.
Having said that my vote goes to the Busse. With the SOG you have a great knife. With the Busse you have a knife, chopping tool, prying tool, and the confidence that you can throw whatever you want at it and it will make it through the day.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying anything against the SOG. There are just things I would suggest you not do with it that I know the Busse can handle. The SOG 2000 did pass the SEAL tests. I have no doubt the Busse would out perform the SOG in everything except maybe corrosion resistance. But the SOG is made of stainless steel and INFI has shown itself to be corrosion resistant. If you're not planning on hanging out in salt water for hours I wouldn't sweat the difference.
Having carried and used both. The Busse outshines the SOG. As well it should for the price difference.
Buy the Busse and never worry about your knife again. On the off chance something did happen to the knife (and it didn't kill you first) it's covered by the warranty. Jerry will make it right.
Hope that helps.
 
I currently have the SOG field knife, it's similar to the SOG X-42 Recondo. It's the reason I stumbled on Busse. I wanted something bigger, badder and with no plastic. And yes full tang is IMHO the only way to go. I've never put the kind of stress on a blade needed to break one but if I do I want it to have a tang that goes throughout the length of the knife. I've used both and yeah I happen to be quite fond of BG-42 steel but as far as I'm concerned SOG just doesn't compare to Busse INFI. I'm not a Seal by any means but not many of us are. Couldn't tell you why they voted it in but maybe it has to do with mass production or somebody priming the pump if you get my drift. I got the bug real bad for Busse and have to intention of looking for something to cure it. I've found the ultimate in fixed blades right here (and I looked long and hard) at Busse and I'm thinking if you pick one up you'll understand fully what I mean.

Just my two cents. Hope it helps.
 
The old adage that “you get what you pay for” is very apt when comparing these two knives.

The Seal 2000 is a nice enough knife, but I wouldn’t want to bet my life on the steel, serrations, design, or handle.

On the other hand, I know the Busse will stand up to whatever I throw at it.
 
ejskle said:
i've never seen a seal 2000, so I can't comment on it, but check out this review: http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/knives/seal_2000.html

check out the busse combat homepage and search for posts on the forums about INFI steel. It really is the busse differentiator, in that it dents instead of fractures. the micarta handles are also very nice on busses.
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I love cliff stamps reviews. Very few knives survive. You know they are tough on knives when they can break a howling rat. I know the howler was ground to thin but still...
 
There's no comparison between any SOG model and a Busse. Like comparing an economy model car to a luxury model.

When I started collecting knives a few years back I had trouble justifying spending much over $100 for a knife. So I bought a couple of SOGs because they were in my price range at the time. I still have them, they are the ones made out of BG-42. They are good knives for the price and SOG is one of the few production companies that use it.

As for the Navy Seals using the model you are referring to, the government puts out specs for a lot of military equipment - and then they go with the contractor with the lowest bid that meets specs. I bet the military also buys a lot of Kabars and Ontario knives that are relatively inexpensive compared to high end knives like a Busse. I suspect the Seals use a lot of different knives, including one of the Mission titanium knives which costs about $300 street price to civilians.

Also, Busse has gotten a lot of military contracts from special units we don't know about. We are lucky when there is a over run and we can get some of these models in a mad rush that usually lasts no more than 15 minutes. Slow hogs go unfed, and piglets get trampled in these offers.

Read the forum and learn.

P.S. If I were going to war, I would want the best knife I could afford. In high-end production, Busse would be on the top of my list.
 
The following quote is from SOG after Cliff broke a X-42 recondo w/BG-42. It's a 'classic'.

"Usually, we do not recommend stabbing one's knife into wood. That does constitute misuse"

Get a Busse.
 
razcob said:
The following quote is from SOG after Cliff broke a X-42 recondo w/BG-42. It's a 'classic'.

"Usually, we do not recommend stabbing one's knife into wood. That does constitute misuse"

Get a Busse.
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Is that for real...LMAO! Beautiful, yeah that says it all, don't it?!
 
Paradiggum said:
I might be able to help you out here. I have 2 SOG 2000's. It is indeed a very nice knife. I wouldn't necessarily feel unprepared having it hanging off my leg.
Having said that my vote goes to the Busse. With the SOG you have a great knife. With the Busse you have a knife, chopping tool, prying tool, and the confidence that you can throw whatever you want at it and it will make it through the day.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying anything against the SOG. There are just things I would suggest you not do with it that I know the Busse can handle. The SOG 2000 did pass the SEAL tests. I have no doubt the Busse would out perform the SOG in everything except maybe corrosion resistance. But the SOG is made of stainless steel and INFI has shown itself to be corrosion resistant. If you're not planning on hanging out in salt water for hours I wouldn't sweat the difference.
Having carried and used both. The Busse outshines the SOG. As well it should for the price difference.
Buy the Busse and never worry about your knife again. On the off chance something did happen to the knife (and it didn't kill you first) it's covered by the warranty. Jerry will make it right.
Hope that helps.
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ditto! i also had a sog and passed it on to my son. it is a fine knife and that's for sure. i went busse for the steel and warranty. one other nice benefit is this forum. you will have tons of first hand info on your model busse and free drinks for the life of the knife!:thumbup:

welcome to the busse forum, stop back again soon:cool:
 
First off, we are talking about to drastically different price ranges. A Seal 2000 can be had for under $100. That is quite economical. If all you will do is possibly have it for mild taskings, then it will suit you just fine. Stepping up to a Busse is like going Custom. Your getting much better steel and Heat Treat. But you will pay through your nose for it. If you go Custom, you pick and choose what you want and pay through your nose for it.

I would say that if you like the Sog go for it as sogs are knife history. If you have the extra cash then step up to higher end stuff like Busse or custom. the old addage that you get what you pay for is true however it goes by the law of diminishing returns. In other words, a $300 knife isn't exactly 3 times better than a $100 knife. That is especially true when you take swamp rat into the mix. for the mid 100's you get a knife that bests $300-$400 knifes routinely. In fact it is only slightly shy of Busse knives. I have several sogs that I really like.
 
hdwrlover said:
... the government puts out specs for a lot of military equipment - and then they go with the contractor with the lowest bid that meets specs.
Click to expand...

This is definitely the truth. Depending what branch, unit, budget, and ability to get purchase requests approved, is the determining factor on what can/is bought. You also need to remember that these knives are seen as disposable gear so are routinely bought in bulk. The SEAL 2000 is a good knife but nowhere in the same category as a Busse.
 
Cobalt said:
the old addage that you get what you pay for is true however it goes by the law of diminishing returns. In other words, a $300 knife isn't exactly 3 times better than a $100 knife.
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That depends, If you bet your life on your knife and it fails you then isnt the one that is 3x the cost at least 3X better if it don't break in the same situatiuon.
 
SNAFU said:
This is definitely the truth. Depending what branch, unit, budget, and ability to get purchase requests approved, is the determining factor on what can/is bought. You also need to remember that these knives are seen as disposable gear so are routinely bought in bulk. The SEAL 2000 is a good knife but nowhere in the same category as a Busse.
Click to expand...
The Military don't always go with the lowest bidder otherwise Busse would never fill military contracts. First off you have to submit a cost analasys estimate and then you select the one that fits your needs at the lowset price. If there is a big difference in price then you can do a sole source justification letter. In the case of Busse it could easily be proven that there knife will not fail, as evident by all the live demo testing and real world reports and the other brands would fail as evident by the people breaking there knives and reporting it. There is your justification.
The other thing to be aware of is misleading advertising. Example: Tasco won a contract for scopes to be used in spec ops, they were awarded a contract to produce a small batch for further, real world testing. They did not get the overall contract because during the real world tests they failed. They now sell this scope as milspec under contract # XXXXX. In reality they never won the real contract but because they had a contract to make a limited # of scopes they use that as there basis for selling milspec specops scopes and technically they are not lying but in reality these are not used by the military.
 
custom1022 said:
The Military don't always go with the lowest bidder otherwise Busse would never fill military contracts. First off you have to submit a cost analasys estimate and then you select the one that fits your needs at the lowset price. If there is a big difference in price then you can do a sole source justification letter. In the case of Busse it could easily be proven that there knife will not fail, as evident by all the live demo testing and real world reports and the other brands would fail as evident by the people breaking there knives and reporting it. There is your justification.
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Just to clarify, the military as a whole for acquisitions greater than $2500 typically goes for the lowest bidder that can meet stated functional requirements. However, various units if they have the desire, funding (usually the biggest factor), and requirement for an item such as a Busse have the leeway and authority to make such purchases. SPECOPS is a totally different world and typically don't require such a rigorous justification process in procurement.
 
I have to chime in here... I don't know how SOG got awarded the contract, but I wish they didn't have it. I've been around a while, and never saw or heard of any first hand witnessing of SOG's "Tests". Now, the Mad Dog was a different story, quite a knife. I have one of the first 50 ATAC's made and could probably sell it for enough cash to buy a Harley, but that's a different story. I just recently got a NO-E, it is now on my gear. I have carried the SOG, it's not bad for a total beater. I don't like anything about it other than the size and the fact that if I lose it, I can get another one with little to no hassle. I absolutely hate the handle, it's horrible- feels cheap and has zero retention factor. Most Team guys don't want a large fixed blade knife, in fact many guys just carry a folder. I enjoy knives and if it comes down to me and my blade- I want it to be a bad-ass piece of steel that's tougher than me. A SOG??? not quite bro.
A tid bit for you- the knife we are issued is the SEAL Pup, NOT the SEAL 2000. Also if I may, a bit of advice- NEVER buy a peice of gear because "SpecOps" guys use it. While some of the stuff is the real deal, alot is just hype. Plus, those of us that really care usualy buy a majority of our own kit. There is another high dollar knifemaker out there who has a "SEAL" knife, I've never seen anyone that has one, or heard of any kind of discount going to Team guys. If you want a good SEAL knife, buy a Chris Reeves "Neil Robert's Warrior knife". It's an awesome blade and Neil's family get's a portion of the proceeds.

Sorry if I rambled off the topic, but I hate to see the Team's being used as an endorsement when it's not especialy deserving.
 
Having been in your spot until not too long ago, here's my take. Prior to buying my first Busse (FSH for @ $375) my two SOGs at @ $100 a piece were my most expensive knives. I was very happy with them although they didn't get all that much use. I thought they had a good feel, and I was happy with the way they looked.

To make a long story shorter- then I read Cliff's reviews, then I read Cliff's Busse reviews, then I started hanging out on the forums, then after many sleepless nights I bit the bullet and ordered my FSH- as soon as it came, I lost any thought of having overpaid or that I would regret having paid so much for a knife. When you hold it, you feel and see the excellence of the design. To me its a functional work of art. When I have the $$ I will buy more Busses (that should let you know that the price came dear)- I won't be buying any more SOGs. As mentioned above, it is really nice to know that you basically can't hurt it, and that it will be up for more than you will probably ever ask it to do.

If you could get your hands on one you would know- unfortunately, most of us can't until we buy one. The thing is though, if you look around, you can always sell it for at least what you paid for it, so really no risk.

My $.02- hope it helps.
 
I have never owned a SOG, But I have to say that Busse and Swamp Rat are my favorite companies. It is a great feeling to have a knife that you can use as hard as you want without the slightest fear that it will fail you. Get the Busse and you wont regret it. They retain their value quite well, even after being used heavily, and the warranty is second to none. :thumbup:
 
Let's put it this way, if you don't buy a Busse you're selling yourself short. You could get a SwampRat and that will also fulfill your requirements.
 
winmagfrog said:
I have to chime in here... I don't know how SOG got awarded the contract, but I wish they didn't have it. I've been around a while, and never saw or heard of any first hand witnessing of SOG's "Tests". Now, the Mad Dog was a different story, quite a knife. I have one of the first 50 ATAC's made and could probably sell it for enough cash to buy a Harley, but that's a different story. I just recently got a NO-E, it is now on my gear. I have carried the SOG, it's not bad for a total beater. I don't like anything about it other than the size and the fact that if I lose it, I can get another one with little to no hassle. I absolutely hate the handle, it's horrible- feels cheap and has zero retention factor. Most Team guys don't want a large fixed blade knife, in fact many guys just carry a folder. I enjoy knives and if it comes down to me and my blade- I want it to be a bad-ass piece of steel that's tougher than me. A SOG??? not quite bro.
A tid bit for you- the knife we are issued is the SEAL Pup, NOT the SEAL 2000. Also if I may, a bit of advice- NEVER buy a peice of gear because "SpecOps" guys use it. While some of the stuff is the real deal, alot is just hype. Plus, those of us that really care usualy buy a majority of our own kit. There is another high dollar knifemaker out there who has a "SEAL" knife, I've never seen anyone that has one, or heard of any kind of discount going to Team guys. If you want a good SEAL knife, buy a Chris Reeves "Neil Robert's Warrior knife". It's an awesome blade and Neil's family get's a portion of the proceeds.

Sorry if I rambled off the topic, but I hate to see the Team's being used as an endorsement when it's not especialy deserving.
Click to expand...

well said. You are one of the few Frogs I heard of that has an avid interest in blades. I have known a few and have worked with them at the post office and they didn't give a crap about specific knives. In any case if you will carry just one, better make it the most. Busse and SwampRat are the most. :thumbup:
 
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