Help: Chinook II Confiscated by Canada Customs

I found lots of sources on appeals, but the easiest one is just do a Google search on "site:www.citt-tcce.gc.ca CITT appeal knife", plenty of stuff there. There are other archives I stumbed upon, but they are all practically the same. Same arguments made, same counter-arguments given, knife flicked open with Lord knows how many tries, and the appeal is dismissed, and the knives destroyed. Sad, really. I am beginning to realize that exporting the knife by a "bonded carrier" will be the only viable option for me. I am sure given enough tries at different angles someone might get even a Chinook flipped open. All they have to do is bring the knife before the board and manage to flick it open by whichever means... :(
 
Explain to customs that instead of destroying it they could just tighten the pivot screw and mail it to you. ;)

Good luck.

Regards,
cds1
 
The whole tighten the screw thing argument happens in lots of appeals. The response of the Crown is that it is not a premanent solution, since it can then be loosened as soon as I have the knife. Well. d'uh!? I can get ANY knife and then fiddle work with it until it becomes a balisong or a switchblade. But why would I? :(

Someone even made the argument that the pivot screw is there to MAKE the knife LEGAL because after heavy use the blade on any knife will loosen, risking to make it illegal, so tightenable screw is very beneficial to good law-abiding citizens who wish to carry only legal knives. Well, the guy got the same response: well, you *could* use that same screw to loosen it too, couldn't ya? Sigh... To me it basically sounds like they already assumed that my only intention with this knife is to make it a gravity knife and stalk the city streets menacingly meowing in the night... :) Kinda insulting, being treated like a criminal, even when you are obviously trying to do the right thing.
 
All I can add to this is,Next time you order have the place you get it from Tighten the pivot down tight enough it would take a crow bar to open it or have an individual send it to you in a padded envelope.You do not have to put customs tags on them and chances are it would not get searched.
The World is going to Hell in a Handbag!
 
I'm sorry this happened to you..Maybe it becomes clearer to all as to WHY I was so anal all this time -years about making sure that the pivot screw in all Guntings be so tight that it almost wouldn't open with your thumb but you would have to Kinetically or lever it open..
With the laws in place everywhere, the attitude is to punish us all and sort the bad guys out later...
I wish you the best of luck..
yes..please ask, request that your pivot be made almost impossible to move..then you adjust it at home..

be safe

Bram
 
Hey Guys...

You need a custom sticker for Anything crossing the border.. Bubble-opes are not exempt from declarations....

If a package is misrepresented in any way ie, sending a knife and even calling it a "Hand Tool" is grounds for them to confiscate.

These people have the power, it's in our own interest to play by their rules.

At the last CKG show, makers were warned to tighten their pivots, as there may be RCMP/TO police testing...

Any folders coming in from the US,, make sure the pivots are Cranked down,and be as honest as possible with your declarations.

Just some advice from someone doing this for a little while...

ttyle

Eric..
 
I just sent a package via global priority and it said on the envelope that customs tag was not needed if less than 10 oz in wieght.I asked the clerk also and they said the same thing.
 
Hey U812..

WoW,, thats interesting..First I've heard of that...

Hmmm..

Thanks

Eric...
 
That was in general I guess Canada may have a differant rule or something that has not gotten on to the US envelopes.
 
Hey U8...

Yaa thats strange.. I've always been told that ceverything has to have a declaration on it...

Learn something new every day..

Thanks

Eric...
 
Hi Vess,

I'll email you the name of the person I spoke to, and her number. It has not been made clear to me either, how to go about getting my knife shipped. I have not given up yet though! :grumpy:

At this point, I am told to await the decision as to whether or not they will allow me to return ship the knife to an address other than the one I received it from. The forumite that traded the knife to me had chosen to cease email communications with me; or his email is down. The messages I've sent to him are not bouncing back, they are merely going unanswered. :(

Jeff/1911.
 
Vess said:
The whole tighten the screw thing argument happens in lots of appeals. The response of the Crown is that it is not a premanent solution, since it can then be loosened as soon as I have the knife...
Click to expand...

Then every knife is a gravity knife. (This is a lockback, for heaven's sake!)

I've been told that in New York City cops have been grabbing knives by the blade, swinging them, and seeing if they could get the handle to fly opened. If it would, they would declare it a gravity knife and use it as grounds for arrest. I discovered from my own testing, much to my horror and dismay, that I can even get my super-stiff Chinook I to "deploy" that way. Nothing is safe if those that enforce the laws choose to abuse them.

I now carry an Emerson Specwar (linerlock) with the pivot screw tightened to an obscene degree. I cannot inertia-deploy it in any way, holding onto the handle or the blade. Thankfully, since it has a thumb-disk, I can still deploy it reasonably quickly. Maybe I'll find out that it's still illegal, since I can loosen the pivot screw when I get home :rolleyes: .

I think people should start to sue the authorities for abuse of the law. Maybe that will change things.

Good luck.

Regards,
cds1
 
CDS1, to make an obvious point, here, the trick of grabbing the blade and flicking the handle, when done with a Spyderco, is called a "Spyderco Drop" and has been practiced for years. I do not believe that Sal would call it "abuse", although I may be wrong on that.

Vess, that is one stupid damned interpretation of the laws, as it means exactly what CDS1 said. There are even old-fashioned "friction lock" bladesd that open by gripping the back edge of the blade and giving them a sharp snap. It was common practice not so very many years ago for young men in the Southern USA to work their Texas Toothpick knives hundreds or even thousands of times to get them to flick open quickly. That was the favored knife for fighting back then, as in the old Kingston Trio song, "Everglades".
 
This knife is not a gravity knife and wasn't designed to be an automatic. In a Michael Janich video, he goes off about this topic. He says that he knows a guy that can fire a hand gun 8 or 9 times a second, but it doesn't make the gun automatic, It means that he worked hard to develop a certain skill to shoot it that way. The same way with opening knives quickly. Just because you developed the skill of opening your knife quickly, doesn't make it a gravity knife.

I'd fight this case. Good luck
 
I'd point out that it's a logical fallacy to enforce a law where there is no standard. You could, for example, invent a machine that opens any knife (that doesn't lock closed) this way, making all folding knives illegal. Since the statute has been shown to be absurd, any thinking, intellligent person can conclude the law's test for illegality is invalid.
 
Logic has no place in law, and nor should it.

If it did, what would we do with all the lawyers?

They'd end up placing a huge drain on social security, and setting up failed businesses and fleecing tourists at find the lady.

They do the least damage where they are, and that is why law and logic must never meet.
 
I am having the same problem now with a Spyderhawk. I couldn't figure out why they would be detaining it after reading the importation act, but now I figure that the guy must have been able to flip it open somehow.

I'll talk to them today and see what is happening.

Geoff
 
I talked with my mom, who is a lawyer, and she looked up the actual definition of a knife which opens by centrifugal force. Gripping it by the blade and flipping the handle open is allowed in the criminal code. It is only illegal if you apply the force to the blade, ie the blade swings open.

The relevant section of the Criminal Code of Canada taken from Martin's criminal code 2004, Section 84:

"Prohibited Weapon - A knife may come within para. (a) whether or not it
comes within the ordinary meaning of weapon and whether or not it was
designed to be used as a prohibited weapon if in fact its blade, through
wear and tear or alteration, can be fully opened for use by applying
centrifugal force or gravity to the blade. It is the capability and not the
design of the knife that determines whether or not it is a prohibited
weapon. The words "any knife that has a blade that opens automatically
by...centrifugal force" should be interpreted as meaning one that opens by
means of a centrifugal force APPLIED TO THE BLADE AND NOT TO THE HANDLE.
The word "open" in the definition means open with the capacity for use as a
weapon. Any knife which, when held in a position where the handle is above
the blade and the blade drops open at or about a 90 degree angle to the
handle and by gravity continues to open fully, available for use, when the
handle is placed in a vertical position or when centrifugal force is applied
to a partially opened blade, is a knife having a blade that opens
automatically by gravity or centrifugal force and is therefore a prohibited
weapon. R. v. Richard and Walker (1981), 63 C.C.C. (2d) 333, 24 C.R. (3d)
373 (N.B.C.A.)

A knife that will only open by holding the blade and applying centrifugal
force to the handle is not within the definition. However, a knife although
not originally so designed, which through long use opens by application of
centrifugal force to the blade, is a prohibited weapon: R. v. Archer (1983),
6 C.C.C. (3d) 129 (Ont C.A.)"

It is pretty clear that if they flip the handle open that they are interpretting the law incorrectly. I'm going to use this as soon as I can get a hold of the Customs officer that sent me this detainment notice.

Hope this helps someone.

Geoff
 
Well, I talked to them and I guess they can hold it by the handle and flick it open. I guess this must be a quality control issue, since it is not designed to do this.

Since a bonded carrier who will export the knife will cost more than the knife itself, I guess I'm going to abandon it.

Geoff
 
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