Help fixing a rolled edge on my convex bravo 1

[Jason B.]

They sell 3k on amazon, I've been meaning to get some but keep forgetting

2k will do good and when it wears it gets even better. It will have a mirror like finish but still a light haze of a scratch pattern. Usually I finish with 6, 3, and 1 micron compounds on strops to give it that mirror finish

 

[JCK]

I think I might have another problem/been doing something wrong.

here are some closeups of the side of the blade, near the edge, its got like a spot where it is quite polished and well that should be along the entire length of the blade shouldn't it? not just that one spot?

does this image basically mean I have been sharpening/removing metal/polishing the wrong spot, thus why it is shiny there and not shiny anywehre else.

I think that that shiny spot is the mirror finish you are referring to?

non logo side

Smaller spot on the logo side, at the same place where the large spot is on the non logo side

 

[Jason B.]

You you using a mouse pad backing?

It looks like you did not use the lower grits enough/progressed too fast, and your contact points are way off.

Don't know if it will help but here are some knives that were converted from V bevel to convex.

Some BRKT's

Wish I had a better pic but this is the only one I have of a bravo1

 

[JCK]

I couldn't find a mousepad as the only one I had was a round one.

So I used the stuff from a pencil case, I guess its not solid enough/or it has too much give? And is probably where all my troubles are coming from? :foot:

here is a pic of my mousepad, is it too small to make it into a rectangle. I'd rather not cut it up, is there maybe something else that could do? I'll try find a proper mousepad though

Stuff I was using on left round mousepad on right

Comparison between the two, the top is the mousepad. When I press down on it it feels firmer, and a bit more "rubbery", when I press down on the pencil case stuff, it feels a bit more spongy, and has more give, and efels less "rubbery"

 

[Jason B.]

You need a better backing

 

[JCK]

so a proper mousepad, that is also larger
Can I ask do you have a picture of the backing that you used?

and those pics do help, something that mine should look like at the end (kind of)

EDIT: I'll go down to officeworks soon, and get a few of their basic mousepads, but there is also a rubber store next to them. Should I just stick with the mousepads or would some rubber ber good too. Like some 3mm thick stuff?

 

[JCK]

I ended up cutting up the round mousepad and made it into a rectangle. its not the biggest, but it dose seem to have the best backing.

I also am practicing on it, by putting the about 4mm/ 1/4 inch of blue marker on the edge and then doing the heel to tip motion to try and see if I can get a consistent angle. According to the KSF video on angles, if there is a bit of marker left on the 'shoulder' and none underneath, then that is a good angle.

I imagaine that this is what it should look like if I were to hold a good, steady consistent angle.

Just thought of this, should I be doing it tip to heel or heel to tip. I've been doing it heel to tip, if that makes a difference

 

[Jason B.]

I use the JRE EMS sharpening block, its made for convex and works extremely well. Its not expensive and makes the whole process much easier.

 

[JCK]

That seems like something that would work perfect for me, I'll have to pick one up as soon as I can. I think that this would help my poor technique.

Can I ask when you use up all the sandpaper do you purchase the abrasives package from JRE or just use sandpaper from your local hardware store? will wet and dry sandpaper be fine?

But thanks for all the tips, I kinda feel like pointing me to this you have given up hope on me, hahah, which isn't a bad thing, as I clearly am no good at convex sharpening.

thanks knifebut1013, I'll let you know I get along with it, as soon as I get it.

 

[Jason B.]

Not giving up hope just showing you the way the EMS block is what really helped me be consistent with my convex, its a must have tool IMO.

 

[JCK]

will it help me polish out/get rid of the polish spot on my knife.

this one

 

[ikuyadas]

I've ever rolled and rolled my H-1 knife
and tried to grind off rolled part of blade with #100 sandpaper
on Coleman's urethane camping mat.
I couldn't remove rolls at all but it filed well.

Now I use EVA board to sharpen with sandpaper.
What I did first at arrival my Bravo-1 was to burnish its blade
from #2000 to #5000 sandpaper before stropping leather
and then to force patina with Birchwood Superblue.

I'm not good at sharpening with stones
But Bravo-1 reacts well to natural hard waterstone.
I think that it needs to take heat treating if you want to fix your roll fundamentally
but time will solve them after day-by-day usage and sharpenings.

Only my surprise but you can drip water on sandpaper.
If I was in your case without any machines and supports
I’ll set #100 to this or take diamond file to reduce amount of roll
and will turn daily process of sharpening.

After stropping. I didn't take convex bevel so tightly,
but probably anyone can do that due to their needs and preferences.
I think you should straighten your edge again vertically at soon
but it doesn't matter to hurry up to reprofile both sides of blade surfaces.

 

[JCK]

Thanks for the advice ikuyadas,. I do have one question about what you mean by the heat treat. Do you mean that after sharpening the Barvo 1 a few times, the knife steel is harder? I've heard something similiar like this.

I also ordered a JRE EMS sharpening system today, plus an extra leather belt, and as I already have some bark river compound, I'll have a complete system.

 

[ikuyadas]

Sorry too late and fuzzy words JCK.

what you mean by the heat treat.

I tried to say "totally overhaul to steel" by forging maker
that includes to break handles and to take steel into fire again.
It's only word I heard when I asked ways to fix my rolled knife
and it was exactly "heat treatment".

I couldn't request it because H-1 steel cannot do this,
but Bravo-1 is made of high carbon steel and maybe available to it.
and Bark River is well known to its customer service,
so I think that you can ask them as a final way.

Do you mean that after sharpening the Barvo 1 a few times, the knife steel is harder?

It is called as "work hardening" under discussion
what I was confused when to search a way.
I got advice then but didn't feel so much effect
when it was only sharpening and without any usage at all.

A2 steel likes outside and pleasures in cutting woods IMO,
and felt that more and more cut makes edge sharper until the end of works.
I'm only a city user but would say that actual use is essential to work-hardening,
and recommend you to crash pumpkin with a short baton for example.

I also ordered a JRE EMS sharpening system today, plus an extra leather belt, and as I already have some bark river compound, I'll have a complete system.

Now I am in practice to convex my svord peasants
referring to knivesandstaff's YouTube movies...
(Is it okay, knifenut1013?)

 

[Jason B.]

A roll is a deformation of the metal, no HT or re-temper is needed just a good sharpening.

Its going to take a lot longer that a few sharpening to work harden a blade, think years.

ikuyadas, The vid is OK but not the greatest as I can see flaws in technique and the average lack of detail in explanation in what is going on. Take a look at the ksf vids.

 

[samhain73]

Not giving up hope just showing you the way the EMS block is what really helped me be consistent with my convex, its a must have tool IMO.

I agree, best sharpening implement I've ever purchased.

 

[JCK]

So I found a proper mousepad, and I managed to fix my edge up and get it really sharp, however I just a couple of last questions.

My edge towards the handle is not as wide as the rest of the edge. Its only a small difference, but just wondering is this a bad thing, as I think this means something is wrong with my technique.

here are some pics

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_KfISOT21EPw/TAov9uz4jwI/AAAAAAAALiY/bNK3nPNws4I/s800/DSCF0341.JPG

Is this normal or should my whole edge be wider, like in the pics you posted?

lastly, as you might be able to see is has a fair few scratches on the blade, is there anyway to remove those scratches , like the edge of the blade is shiny and polished, can i make the whole blade at least partially shiny? I don't have much of a problem with scratches, I just wished I had put them there through use, rather than sharpening?

 

[ikuyadas]

My edge towards the handle is not as wide as the rest of the edge.

First: width difference among part of the edge


Sorry I cannot estimate from pics exactly
Only I can try to imagine if I fail...

1. Rolled part of the edge will make a different shape of filings
   if you keep same angle around whole part of the edge.
   
2. Total amount of filing tend to be lower nearby handle of the edge.
   or pressing down spot (where mousepad sinks) is mainly front part of the edge.
   
3. Different angle of the edge between point-curved line and rest straight line.
   
4. Aimed to fix rolled part of the edge at first, so took more files there.
   

but bevel line looked like twisted ribbon
when I leaned my PC display.
If you try to hold knife and move EMS block like DMT aligner
you might keep angle of blades well at emergency.

Is this normal or should my whole edge be wider, like in the pics you posted?

Second: proper width of edge


At first about grind: Knife Grinds Explained
and if I call "high full convex grind" as Bravo-1 temporally;

I don't like secondary flat bevel
and like to make blade (not edge) at sharpening.
Because I'm not good at secondary bevel sharpening,
and I like tastes of Hamon textures on the blade.
So my sharpening is almost from my preferences
and I want to add a bit of secondary bevel for the edge retension.

On the other side it is a EXTREMELY beautiful blades of knifenuts1013.
It seems to be ideal for me and I cannot do such sharpening.
His blade is based on his great theory and skill,
and he made a very shiny part of the edge especially.
I cannot distinguish as if he made secondary convex bevel or not,
but it is certainly a multi-grit result from his policy.

I think you can determine grind, bevel, and finish of your Bravo-1.

lastly, as you might be able to see is has a fair few scratches on the blade, is there anyway to remove those scratches , like the edge of the blade is shiny and polished, can i make the whole blade at least partially shiny? I don't have much of a problem with scratches, I just wished I had put them there through use, rather than sharpening?

Third: Erase scratch / Shiny finish


I think if you hope "mirror" finish it is difficult for me
because it needs diamond compound and it is a little expensive.
and I think it is possible to make a "burnished" blade
which reflects light but remains hair line scratches.

But you will need lower numbers of sandpaper to fix roll of your blade,
and burnishing is a one of the result of sharpening.
I burnished my blade at first to help to prevent rust,
rest will be numbers of stropping over years.

So if I list up your processes that would be second:
Almost all of scratches will be removed under processes.

1. reprofile1(fix)
2. reprofile2(set up blade on preference)
3. stropping after use
4. sandpaper in case

Totally you can wait for arrival of your maintenance tools.

 

[basb]

The edge on my Bravo-1 rolled last week when i accidently hit stone. Its about the same spot as the OP's.
However i've been working at it about everyday for the last 5 days and it doesnt improve...... My angle is about this;

I use 290 grit sandpaper on a Armaflex insulation backing which looks surprisingly like a mousepad. After a while the rolled edge had a bite again. However it didn't get better at all. Going to 400 and up it even got dull again....... I'm slowly going nuts here...... The rest of the blade shaves with ease, except the entire belly.....

edit; I'm losing it now..... At work i spend 2 hours on 290grit and back home another 1,5 hour on 290. The straight part of the blade shaves but the belly doesn't, not even close. I used different amounts of pressure, different angles(from very low to like 60 degrees) Took it to 500grit for a few strokes and the straight part shaves EASY and the belly only seem to get duller.
I want it back at atom slicing like it was before i hit the stone.

 

[ChapmanPreferred]

I have three Barkies. I have had success with the mousepad and sandpaper sharpening method, but I probably thinned the edge more than necessary. Unit's picturs of the edges he has make me think I need to practice a lot more...