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Help! I can't get this knife sharp!
- Thread starter a Trexler Ranger
- Start date
DavidHoback
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Typically "inclusive" is understood when giving an angle. And yes a 60 degree edge CAN be sharp. The thickness of the primery bevel plays a huge role in cutting ability. 2 knives having drastically different primery bevels, yet both having a 30 degree edge, will behave completely different in slicing ability. While a 60 inclusive will never be a slicer, it can still be sharp with the right primary bevel behind it, and be a good chopper.
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OK. Anyone else have any suggestions before I sharpen it tonight?
DavidHoback
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Just make certain you have a burr before switching to the other side.
NJBillK
Custom Leather and Fixed Blade modifications.
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How is this true?
I have personally seen shears in metal shops that have a 90° edge and it will shave hair off your arm by brushing against it.
All shaving comes down to is how crisp your apex is. The thinner an edge, the easier it is to get it to shave since it will have less pushing and more shearing.
Think a bit before you type some misinformation to a newer guy...
----
To the OP:
Wen I am done with work today, I will type up some pointers to see if we can get you straightened out a bit.
I am by no means an expert, but I can get my knives to pop hair off of my arms without issue.
DavidHoback
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NJBill, you have to take Gaston with a grain of salt. He has some, well...interesting views on knives, steels, sharpening, etc. They tend to go against the popular beliefs of most and in some instances against the laws of science it self! Best just to correct the statements and move on, like I did... But don't waste time trying to engage. Are you familiar with "effort in futility"? It's kinda like that.
NJBillK
Custom Leather and Fixed Blade modifications.
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I am, my questioning of him was more or less to let the OP know that his advice is questionable at best. With my offering of an immediate example only serving to drive the point home.
I would never take the advice of someone who thinks a gym sock down the front of their pants is a functional (and protective) sheath.
DocJD
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NJBillK
Custom Leather and Fixed Blade modifications.
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Were the tactics always for "small Units" or did the plans evolve as some of its member(s) were removed?That's part of Gaston's "small Unit" tactics !
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Thanks guys. I haven't sharpened it yet so please keep the advice coming.
NJBillK
Custom Leather and Fixed Blade modifications.
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I don't know what you have at your disposal, so a quick rundown of your inventory would work well.
Depending on the work needed, I will change my items used. But going from a fresh made knife I will go:
- Extra coarse DMT or friable (Norton Crystolon)
- Medium or Fine DMT
- Extra Fine DMT
- Extra Extra Fine DMT
- Ultra Fine Spyderco Ceramic
- Strop on loaded piece of wood (3 and 1.5 micron if I want to go that high)
Basically I can get from medium to strop in 10-15 minutes since the heavy lifting is done on the coarse stone.
On my edc and smaller knives, I do short scrubbing strokes from edge to spine, not along the edge but across it. Stopping every couple of strokes (5-10) to check my bevel angle against the shoulder and make sure my contact is good.
- By doing this I can avoid the marker trick, since I feel how I am on the edge, not check visually after or during, and then trying to realign it.
But by scrubbing and working my way from the tip to heel and back, I can concentrate on certain areas that need it while blending them as I move. This also allows me to make sure I have a burr raised quickly since I don't just to edge leading or trailing passes.
As I work up my stones, I tend to watch for scratch pattern, and haziness disappearing once I get up to EE FINE and beyond.
If I had to suggest two things to get asap, it would be the DMT Diafolds in coarse/fine and fine/EE Fine, and the small spyderco stone in Ultra after.
I like to double up on the fine DMT since that does the most of my actual sharpening, while I tend to use the E Fine, EE Fine and Ultras about the same, I do tend to strop more than the previously stated (including Fine DMT). But since I make my strops, I don't need to back them up, but the DMT I keep on in my truck bag (Coarse/Fine) and the Fine/E Fine at home with the rest of my kit.
Depending on the work needed, I will change my items used. But going from a fresh made knife I will go:
- Extra coarse DMT or friable (Norton Crystolon)
- Medium or Fine DMT
- Extra Fine DMT
- Extra Extra Fine DMT
- Ultra Fine Spyderco Ceramic
- Strop on loaded piece of wood (3 and 1.5 micron if I want to go that high)
Basically I can get from medium to strop in 10-15 minutes since the heavy lifting is done on the coarse stone.
On my edc and smaller knives, I do short scrubbing strokes from edge to spine, not along the edge but across it. Stopping every couple of strokes (5-10) to check my bevel angle against the shoulder and make sure my contact is good.
- By doing this I can avoid the marker trick, since I feel how I am on the edge, not check visually after or during, and then trying to realign it.
But by scrubbing and working my way from the tip to heel and back, I can concentrate on certain areas that need it while blending them as I move. This also allows me to make sure I have a burr raised quickly since I don't just to edge leading or trailing passes.
As I work up my stones, I tend to watch for scratch pattern, and haziness disappearing once I get up to EE FINE and beyond.
If I had to suggest two things to get asap, it would be the DMT Diafolds in coarse/fine and fine/EE Fine, and the small spyderco stone in Ultra after.
I like to double up on the fine DMT since that does the most of my actual sharpening, while I tend to use the E Fine, EE Fine and Ultras about the same, I do tend to strop more than the previously stated (including Fine DMT). But since I make my strops, I don't need to back them up, but the DMT I keep on in my truck bag (Coarse/Fine) and the Fine/E Fine at home with the rest of my kit.
NJBillK
Custom Leather and Fixed Blade modifications.
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- Mar 27, 2014
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Oh, the "sharpie trick" is pretty easy; just run a sharpie down your edge bevel on both sides.
As you are sharpening your knife you will see where you are making your contact (edge, whole bevel or shoulder) and you can adjust your technique accordingly.
Eta:
Be wary of a strop that is too soft, as you can easily round an edge ever so slightly.
- I tend to use a strip of paint stirrer sanded on 600 or 800 grit sandpaper laid on glass them loaded it my choice of media.
If you are using a compressible strop, use a light touch and hit the shoulders more than the actual edge with the pressure.
I often suggest you use slightly more than the weight of th knife on the strop. That being said, a harder strop can take a little more pressure since you don't have as readily of a risk of the strop wrapping around the apex and rounding off your hard work.
As you are sharpening your knife you will see where you are making your contact (edge, whole bevel or shoulder) and you can adjust your technique accordingly.
Eta:
Be wary of a strop that is too soft, as you can easily round an edge ever so slightly.
- I tend to use a strip of paint stirrer sanded on 600 or 800 grit sandpaper laid on glass them loaded it my choice of media.
If you are using a compressible strop, use a light touch and hit the shoulders more than the actual edge with the pressure.
I often suggest you use slightly more than the weight of th knife on the strop. That being said, a harder strop can take a little more pressure since you don't have as readily of a risk of the strop wrapping around the apex and rounding off your hard work.
Last edited:
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I have used the sharpie method before and I should go back to it. All I have at my disposal is one of these double sided things and some cooking oil.
I have a ceramic stone I use after I finish with the whetstone
I have a ceramic stone I use after I finish with the whetstone
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These are not all created equal, if it's the Norton economy stone from Home Depot or wherever you should be all right though!
I have used the sharpie method before and I should go back to it. All I have at my disposal is one of these double sided things and some cooking oil.
I have a ceramic stone I use after I finish with the whetstone
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2013
- Messages
- 8,331
These are not all created equal, if it's the Norton economy stone from Home Depot or wherever you should be all right though!
I have used the sharpie method before and I should go back to it. All I have at my disposal is one of these double sided things and some cooking oil.
I have a ceramic stone I use after I finish with the whetstone
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2016
- Messages
- 196
For stropping I use a leather belt the kind that you can get at a Scout camp with the name stamped on the back
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It would be very difficult to suggest anything more than general tips without info of your stones and procedures.
Assuming that the stone is one of those Norton double sided stones, the coarse side would be about #120 and the fine #320 (I don’t own it myself so might be wrong). Then, you should be able to have a good toothy edge with it. If you cannot have an edge cutting printer paper easily, it is probably improper sharpening (not raising burrs, not hitting the apex). If the edge cuts well but looses the initial cutting ability quickly, then it might be bad heat treatment.
Just a guess.
Miso
Assuming that the stone is one of those Norton double sided stones, the coarse side would be about #120 and the fine #320 (I don’t own it myself so might be wrong). Then, you should be able to have a good toothy edge with it. If you cannot have an edge cutting printer paper easily, it is probably improper sharpening (not raising burrs, not hitting the apex). If the edge cuts well but looses the initial cutting ability quickly, then it might be bad heat treatment.
Just a guess.
Miso