Help!!!! I need a Quick, Inexpensive, Quality Custom Maker

Marion David Poff

Marion David Poff

Joined
Oct 8, 1998
Messages
5,403
LOL,

I know the concept is laughable, every "quality" maker has long waits...

I am betting though, that there are a few 'unknown' makers who are good, or maybe a maker who is looking to get a blade into a Forum members hands to increase his reputation.

Ths situation is that I have failed to plan in advance and now find myself catching up and need a custom knife made in 2 months, not one day more, less is obviously, OK.

Any info you can help with would be great.

And, oh yeah, I am not made of money, but I understand the market and am willing to pay for what I want, but not a K an inch of blade, not even a C an inch.

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Marion David Poff aka Eye, one can msg me at mdpoff@hotmail.com If I fail to check back with this thread and you want some info, email me.

My site is at: http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Meadows/1770 Including my review of the Kasper AFCK, thougths on the AFCK and interview of Bob Kasper.

"We will either find a way, or make one." Hannibal, 210 B.C.


 
Marion,

Main function of the knife, materials and price range.

I need this information before I can look into my "crystal ball".

 
Talonite and Micarta, or G-10. Kydex/Concealex

Tactical Kitchen Knife of my design, inspired by Joe's.

$300 as a flexible top dollar not including Talonite.

MDP

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Marion David Poff aka Eye, one can msg me at mdpoff@hotmail.com If I fail to check back with this thread and you want some info, email me.

My site is at: http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Meadows/1770 Including my review of the Kasper AFCK, thougths on the AFCK and interview of Bob Kasper.

"We will either find a way, or make one." Hannibal, 210 B.C.


 
Hi Marion,

First, do you have a lot of experience sharpening knives? If not, then Talonite is not for you.

Because this alloy does not require heat treat, the edge has a tendencey to "roll" when you shapren it. Which means it will now be an "all day sucker" to get it back to the orginal edge.

Additionally, as this alloy is fairly new to knife makers, 99% of the knife makers out there have never used it. Hell, half of them have never heard of it.

If you need something in two months out of Talonite, your best bet is to look for something already built that some one is selling.

If you can use something besides Talonite, your chances of your 8 week deadline will be met.

Of course in that same time frame you are working against 3 major shows in the US and one in France. Blade Show west, The show in Seattle and the New York Custom Knife Show.

With table fees starting at $500.00 and airfare, hotel rooms in New York at $220 a night, etc. Most guys are building inventory to cover expenses at these shows.

Not to mention the 4-8 smaller shows going on around the country.

September thru April is the big season for custom knives. The summers are usually slower and that is the time to put time limits on a knife.

If you can go with a steel instead of an alloy and can supply the maker as design by Friday, you might be able to get your knife. Of course you'll need a sheath, right?

Don't mean to rain on your parade.

 
Ummm ...Les,

I hate to be contradictory but--Talonite is not that difficult to resharpen...At least the knives I have tested. The carbides that do the actual cutting are very hard but the cobalt matrix is mid 40's RC.

A Sharpmaker works fine. Talonite seems to be easier to resharpen on a stone than a polishing belt or wheel.

The only downside to Talonite is that it is $150 bucks a pound.

It takes a while for it to dull too..
 
Marion,

First, what exactly is a "tactical kitchen knife"?

You might be able to catch David Boye with a Cast Dendritic Cobalt Kitchen Knife - Dendritic Cobalt is very similar to Talonite.

Bob Dozier would be a good choice for a kydex sheath.

As Les mentioned, two months is very difficult.

Good Luck,

Larry

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Anthony,

Just passing along what I have heard. Some who have difficulty sharpening knives have difficulty with the "soft" edge, and roll the edge while sharpening.

Trace Rinaldi is more than 3 months. I belive Rob is 6-8 months. Probably will grow as he works on his "production" knives.

As Larry said Boye's dendratic steel may be a way to go.

Tactical Kitchen knife. Sounds like a contridiction in terms Kinda like Presentation Machete.

Do you have a pic or a drawing of this knife?

 
Hey guys, I don't know exactly what Marion has in mind, but I can tell you about the Tactical Kitchen Knife I designed! For me, it's been my most useful fixed blade.

First, I don't mean "tactical" the way you real-live tactical guys mean it. You can look at it as just a name if you want. But "tactical" has come to mean "hard use" in general knife-rag usage [yes, I know, you guys hate that], and a "tactical kitchen knife" to me is a beefed up knife that excels at food prep and other thin-edged jobs but is much tougher.

The original idea for this came as a light camping knife. I use a machete or axe (or big bowie, etc.) for my big jobs in camp. For my little jobs, most of the cutting is food prep, plus whittling walking and hot dog sticks, cutting bandages and moleskin, cutting miscellaneous cordage, perhaps light digging, etc. I wanted one knife that would handle the food prep nearly as good as a kitchen knife, but still be tough enough to stand up to all the other light-camping jobs that get thrown at it. [ note: in camp, I choose to carry one big knife and one small knife that excel at their respective jobs, rather than an 8" midsize knife that compromises both. just my own choice ]

You can view the result at:
www.pe.net/~thrblade

The knife has a drop-blade instead of a formal guard, so you get finger protection, without the problems a guard causes for food prep. A full flat grind off a 1/8" spine means excellent edge geometry. A drop-point blade is an excellent all-around blade shape. The handle has comfortable but secure ergonomics with an index finger cutout, palm swell, and bird's beak.

This knife handles food prep nearly as well as a regular soft/weak kitchen knife, but also handles everything else you'll throw at it in camp for small-knife jobs.

It comes with a multicarry sheath Trace designed, including an option for what I've found to be the most convenient for camping/backpacking (swivel clip), but also can be used as a slip-sheath or horizontal carry.

Because of the excellent edge geometry and ergonomics, I've found this to be a great around-the-house utility knife, and certainly a passable defensive knife. Hell, with all those defensive knives out there with no finger protection at all and very little security on the grip, one with good secure ergonomics and some kind of finger protection should look good.

Anyway, don't let the name throw you. You're not going to be punching holes in steel drums with this knife. But it'll hold up to civilian small-knife jobs, and perform really well doing it.

Anyway, that was the niche I was trying to fill for myself. I'm not tied to Trace's business in any way.


Joe

[This message has been edited by Joe Talmadge (edited 20 September 1999).]
 
Marion,
The only thing I can add is to contact makers in your area and see what they might have in stock. (you won't find Talonite, but odds are you will be able to find a fine knife that will suite your needs in a decent price range.)

If I can help with a list of maker's in your area (mostly out of KNIVES '99), email me.
 
Joe,

Personally, I feel the term Tactical is way overused. I think tactical/utility is more accurate. But your knife, while handy in civilan camping, leaves something to be desired for "tactical" field use. To your credit, you state this in your post. It show s you know what your needs are and you designed the appropriate knife for those needs. Right tool for the Right job.

Since you brought it up, yes in the field you may have to shove that knife into a 55 gallon drum (yes I have done this in the field to get fuel for my vehicles when I was a TOW Platoon Leader). I think the lack of guard(s) on this particualr design would lend it's self to making this a painful chore.

The way the choil area is designed it would bruise if not cut your hand.

Joe I do agree with you that there are too many knives out there that are called "tactical" or "defensive". Sadly, everything is called "tactial". Whether it is or not.

In my opinon, tactical knives that are going to be used hard in the field need to have at least a single guard. This provides protection for your fingers, as well as providing a degree of mechanical advantage.

Personally I have found a knife that has a double guard works best. I have always felt a single edge knife is like only putting 3 rounds in a revlover.

If the knife is ground properly with a thick spine running down the full length of the knife, there is no reason to have a single edge, with a thick, unsharpened false secondary edge (or lack there of).

Flat grinding with a distal taper will enhance the cutting edge, especially good for slicing and slashing. Great for the "camp". Additionally, this can reduce the weight and add flexability. However, you lose thrusting and penetration ability, due in part to the lighter weight of the blade. Remember, Bowies were designed primarily for slashing from as far away as possible, but still being able to injure your oponent. Which a Bowie being slashed across another human being would usually bring that arguement to a close.

This is why in days past, frontier men carried big bowies and river boat gamblers carried small 3-5 inch dirks (daggers). As their Battles usually consisted of "Up close and personal" confrontations. Also, they needed a more concealable knife. Consequently, they preferred the thinner double edged blade, which, by it's design would penetrate easily into their oponent. Remember, on an average person, sticking a knife anywhere in the upper torso a mere 3 inches will generally puncture an organ. Also, note that many of these dirks had a double guard.This, idea also gave rise to the push dagger, whose egronomic handle gave a great mechanical advantage, provided a superior grip, and strong thrusting ability.

A Dirk does not necessarily need a guard. When I designed the LDC F-1 that Bud Nealy made for us. I based it on the OSS Sleeve Dagger from WWII. This knife was to be used soley as a personal defense weapon. On this knife a hole for the thumb is milled out of the blade. This allows a fair amount of blade control. Also, the back of the handle is grooved to provide a better gripping surface. This is coupled with a with a double hollow grind on top and a concave grind on the bottom. This will provide a deeper and more uneven cut (making it more difficult for the attending surgeon to stitch up). Additonally, the knife has a uncoventional edge. In that it is a quasi chisel grind. As at the very edge it is flat on the back side, then it moves to the deeper concave grind. A wicked little knife all in all.

Also, Bob Kasper and Al Polkowski have teamed up for some great designs for all three functions. Defense, Utilty and Tactical use.

The Pug is an excellent Tactical knife with utility applications and the same can be said for the Bulldog. However, the Kasper Companion is more for defensive purposes, with utility as a secondary role.

Take a look at the Polecat. Excellent defensive knife, with double guard, that lends itself more to Tactical than utility.

Anyway, Ive gotten off the subject.

Joe, the knife looks like it is an excellent utilitarian knife, but tactical...no. You could rename it the TUKK. That's a catchier acryonm anyway.

It's almost like Mad Dog's TUSK:
The Unwanted Seal Knife.

See, aren't acronym's fun!

Seriously, Joe if your going to be at a show that I am, I'd like to see one of your knives. Also, I have asked Trace to send me a couple knives to look at. Both you and RJ Martin speak very highly of him. That speaks well for him.


Joe, a question, is the thumb ramp serrated on this knife.
 
The knife is already designed.

It has a 5 inch handle, 5.5 inch blade, and is 2 inches wide at the juncture.

The spine is flat to the tip, yet due to it's width retains a fair amount of curve.

The handle has a finger swell and lanyard hole. The material will probably be Micarta.

It will be made of Talonite first, and then maybe of a steel.

I should have it scanned in a day or so, then I can show you.

------------------
Marion David Poff aka Eye, one can msg me at mdpoff@hotmail.com If I fail to check back with this thread and you want some info, email me.

My site is at: http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Meadows/1770 Including my review of the Kasper AFCK, thougths on the AFCK and interview of Bob Kasper.

"We will either find a way, or make one." Hannibal, 210 B.C.


 
Les, in regards to the Talonite info and difficulty sharpening, did the people with the problem know how to sharpen a knife? While it would seem to me that Talonite would have the exact behavior you describe because of the soft matrix, most reports I have read here have been positive.

-Cliff
 
Les -- great reply, lots to discuss...

First, we both agree on the sad state of affairs regarding the term "tactical". We both realize the TTKK isn't really tactical according to a purist. On the other hand, say the term "tactical kitchen knife" to an average knife mag reader, and he'll envision something very much like the TTKK. I can understand why the name bothers you. I had originally named it LUK, for Light Utility Knife. If the name "TTKK" really sticks in your craw, substitute LUK or TUKK everywhere you see TTKK
smile.gif


Going back to the TTKK's mission, I understand the needs for some pretty abusive uses (like puncturing drums, heavy prying of crates, etc.) for military use. This knife was aimed squarely at civilian use, however. The vast majority of backpackers/hikers/etc. get by with little more than a Gerber LST, so we're definitely talking about a different class of outdoors usage.

I continue to think I hit the nail on the head as far as typical small-knife camp usage for civilian use. The TTKK has better edge geometry for these uses, has better carryability, better long-use comfort, and is still much more beefed up than what you usually see (though is not "tactical" by purist standards by any stretch). It also works exceedingly well for general utility use around the home, for the exact same reasons. Anytime I go camping in a big group, there's loads of knives but mine is the one that people use and pass around, so anecdotal evidence is that the design is spot-on. But it's not a crate-prying drum-piercing sentry-removing tactical.

Agree on a lot of what you say about real tactical knives. Certainly, a knife meant to do hard stabbing with really needs a rounded comfortable guard. The drop-blade format on the TTKK will protect your fingers but hurt like hell. On the other hand, for food prep -- a huge percentage of knife use for civilian camp use -- a guard is positively a pain, and the TTKK will outperform it every time. Which, again, is something I'm sure we agree on -- different strengths for different uses.

Good stuff on tactical knife tradeoffs!

>Seriously, Joe if your going to be at a show that I am, I'd like to see one of your knives

I'd normally make it to the Pasadena show but due to my new baby, won't make it this year. I'm still hoping to make the late Jan / early Feb LV show in 2000 though. I think you're usually there as well, right?

>Joe, a question, is the thumb ramp serrated on this knife.

The knife doesn't have an obvious thumb ramp, but the place where you put your thumb is ungrooved, though I think Trace will groove it for you if you ask (custom knife and all). I would like it lightly grooved, but have always forgotten to ask for it that way. As a knife that's meant to actually sell, I was trying to get in the very critical features, but otherwise keep costs rock bottom. I figured I needed to keep the price under $125 if I was going to be able to convince a non-knife-nut camper to check this thing out. Which is also why I wanted to do this project with a maker who did good solid work but was still unknown and kept prices down.

Another thing about the TTKK -- if you get it with burgundy micarta and mosaic pins, it looks really dressy. As a non-threatening travel knife, it really works well. Another niche for it to fit!

Joe
 
Well,

Imagine the Magnum Camp Knife of Becker fame with a forward cant courtesy of a dropped handle. Now shorten the length and refine the handle. That is my knife. Basically.

I see a number of ranges that I like to fill in cutting tools.

1) Neck knife size, slim, thin, 3-4 inches. This for all the daily stuff. You can carry it easily, and it could in a pinch, do everything, but it would at times be nice to have something longer. Folding knives in general fill this role.

2) Kitchen knife size, 5.5 inches to 8 inches. This is for dressing an animal, basic fabrication, very light chopping, doing the general tasks where a little knife is not enough. This could include fighting, 5.5 inches seems long enough to do real damage and small enough to be very responsive. Personally, this is the size that I like in the kitchen.

3) Bigger, machetes and axes. I have a 12 and 18 inch Barteaux, Hawks and Axes. This is all the chopping and hacking and heavy work.

I called this a 'tactical' because I was keeping weapon potentialities in the back of my head. But realistically it will be used in my kitchen and outdoors.

Though, I consider myself an expert at none of the activities above.

As to getting it made, it looks like that is not going to be a problem, I have gotten some really good responses.

Sharpening, I desire Talonite for it's corrosion resistant properties and it's edge holding. If I have problems sharpening it, I will keep trying something new until I find something that works.

------------------
Marion David Poff aka Eye, one can msg me at mdpoff@hotmail.com If I fail to check back with this thread and you want some info, email me.

My site is at: http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Meadows/1770 Including my review of the Kasper AFCK, thougths on the AFCK and interview of Bob Kasper.

"We will either find a way, or make one." Hannibal, 210 B.C.


 
I spoke to Rob Simonich and his wait is around 13 months now.

Trace Rinaldi's wait is 2-3, but I don't want to chance three.

Alan Folts has worked with Talonite.

Tom Mayo has also worked with Talonite.

Ed Schott has worked Talonite.

I am going to scan and forward my design to about 6 makers, and see what develops from there. I also plan on having a neck knife companion piece made with it.

MDP

[This message has been edited by Marion David Poff (edited 22 September 1999).]
 
Marion --

I'm sure you've considered this already, but just in case ... Forward cants work really well for slicing, slashing, and chopping. But for food prep, they're a huge pain. If you're going for a "tactical utility kitchen knife" with more emphasis on the "tactical utility", then keep the cant, but if you plan to spend any real time doing food prep in the field or kitchen, I'd strongly suggest losing it.

Joe
jat@cup.hp.com
 
Marion
By the way, Becker is bringing back the Magnum Camp knife.
 
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