Help! I"ve been robbed!

braundc

braundc

Joined
Jan 25, 2002
Messages
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Trying to make a long story short... On October 8th at about 3:45 in the morning I awoke to a noise downstairs. I quickly investigated and found burglars in my home. Needless to say I chased one suspect out the front door and down the street, watching him drop my belongings all over the yard and street as he fled. Among the items attempted to be stolen were 5 folders knives and 3 balisongs. I left the items where they were so they could be fingerprinted. The police fingerprinted many items touched by the suspects in the house, such as video games, DVD"s, and others, however for some reason they insisted on taking the knives to their lab for printing. hmmmmm. Guess what. The detective now tells me the balisong knives are illegal to own, not just carry, and is refusing to release them to me. now he is asking me about my display case on the wall another officer saw, it contains more balisongs that were not touched by the theives. and are in no way related to the investigation. I think he is going to try coming over to confiscate them. What would you all do in my shoes right now. The knives in question are production knives, but by no means cheap. total value of the three bali"s and sheath is about $315.00. Talk about being victimized from both ends. Anyone have the facts about Washington State regarding the possesion of balisongs in the privacy of your home? Thanks in advance guys. It's been a real bad month
 
I also copied this thread to the balisong forum hoping to get a better definition there.

RCW 9.41.250
Dangerous weapons -- Penalty.
Every person who:
(1) Manufactures, sells, or disposes of or possesses
any instrument or weapon of the kind usually known as
slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or spring
blade knife, or any knife the blade of which is
automatically released by a spring mechanism or other
mechanical device, or any knife having a blade which
opens, or falls, or is ejected into position by the
force of gravity, or by an outward, downward, or
centrifugal thrust or movement;
(2) Furtively carries with intent to conceal any dagger,
dirk, pistol, or other dangerous weapon; or
(3) Uses any contrivance or device for suppressing the
noise of any firearm,
is guilty of a gross misdemeanor punishable under
chapter 9A.20 RCW.

the real question do balisongs fall under the "any knife having a blade which
opens, or falls, or is ejected into position by the
force of gravity, or by an outward, downward, or
centrifugal thrust or movement"?
 
For what its worth, I really feel for you. I am a LEO and would not have taken them frfom you, of course I'm a fellow knifeknut. I hope it all works out for the best.
 
I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think he can confiscate them without going into your home. And if doesn't have a warrant, he cannot come into your home.
 
Originally posted by J-man_the_jet
I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think he can confiscate them without going into your home. And if doesn't have a warrant, he cannot come into your home.
Click to expand...

Actually he can. Plain view doctrine.
 
I don't know how your jurisdiction handles the plain view doctrine, but I would argue it would only apply if the officer had confiscated the knives when he was in the home investigating the burglary and observed them. After leaving the home, the officer would need either the home owner's permission or a warrant to reenter and confiscate the knives. Even if the knives were clearly visible from the street or the side walk leading to the front door by merely looking at a window, a prudent officer would first obtain a warrant. We do not kick in doors for misdemeanors.
 
Items in plain view can be seized at the time they are seen, so if they were not seized without warrant at the time of the investigation, the plain view doctrine does not apply. The fly in the ointment, however, is that a warrant can be issued to seize the items, based on what was observed by the officer at the scene during the investigation. It may be time to speak to an attorney, if you want to fight this. In Texas, balisongs are usually considered illegal to possess because they can be opened by gravity or centrifugal force, but this prohibition does not apply to premises under control of the possessor, so possession is legal inside one's home. I would recommend checking to see if Washington has a similar exception to the prohibition on possession. Another angle is to see if possession of prohibited weapons is allowed if they are possessed as curios, relics, or part of a display of historic items. If the items are displayed inside a case, such an exception might apply. I recommend consulting an attorney regardless, because if police show up with a warrant, and the items are inside your home, you might be going downtown with the knives. It would be best to already have an acquaintance with an attorney if that happens. I wish you the best of luck.
 
I agree. They should have been seized while the officer was there. If he left and wants to come back and get them he needs a search warrant, which would be easy to obtain based on the facts of the case. Unless he gets consent to go and get them.

It seems to me that if balisongs are illegal to own in the state our friend still comes up with the short end of the stick. He may argue that he didn't give consent and that a search warrant was needed, but I seriosly doubt that would result in him getting the contraband back.

That also likely would not hinder any charges that may be filed against him.
 
True, he can't just come back in and get them withgout a warrant, but a warrant would be no problem to obtain since the officer was legally their when he saw the contraband.
 
Simply 'secure' them with friends or relatives. When the Police come to execute their search warrant, advise them that they have been 'disposed' of and make *no* further comment concerning them, period!

Time would be better spent trying to chase down the burglary suspect but each Department's philosophy varies depending on the wishes and directives of the Chief.

I would be huning down the BG's and not wasting resources on your Bali's. Too bad the pukes got away, get a nice semi-auto with night-sights:D
 
ANY folding knife can technically be opened by centrifugal force. even a swiss army knife, or any traditional slipjoint, if there is enogh centrifugal force.just think about it and you'l understand what i say.
just do like NWA and !@#$ the police, !@#$... !@#$... !@#$... the police!
your post makes me want to buy a bali, even though they are illegal to carry, but legal to posess, as i read maine law.

Compton in da house!!!!
 
Man that sucks. Getting robbed by both the criminals and the cops. You've learned a valuable lesson. NEVER trust cops. Secure your collection somewhere else. They won't ever find out who robbed you. But they will definitely try to rob you. It's a sad screwed up world.:(
 
IIRC, most burglaries (of firearms ) from homes occurred because the perp actually had them in his hands prior to the event. We don't know your specifics - but I bet you'd like to know which friend of a friend may have at least viewed the collection on site in the last 6 - 8 weeks.

I would not like to be hurting about this now any more than you (how do we say "I feel your pain" these days and convey we really mean it?) The display case is probably not a near term option if the LEO's in question return - better it was filled with little Hummels with attitudes. Long term - where else could you put it?
 
I want to know if it's really illegal to own these knives in Washington state. I thought even switchblades were legal if you kept them in your house.
 
For what it's worth, I know that at least one state (Alaska) has supreme court case law examining this question under statutory language that is very similar to that quoted above. The Alaska court held that the butterfly knife was not illegal.

Obviously the Alaska case has no precedential value in Washington, but every little bit of common sense helps.

As I recall, the Alaska case has an amusing description of a cop coming into court to demonstrate the dangerous manipulations of the butterfly knife at issue.

Good luck to you braundc.
 
Having just talked with one of the lawyers who represents the Northwest Arms Collectors Association, it all depends on the definition of "posess"... If it's illeagal to posess, it's illegal to have accesible to the individual anywhere and to include your own home... In WA, as you saw in the RCW statute cited above - the operant term is "posess"... If your knife falls into the categories cited, it doesn't matter where the knife is, it is illegal to have it anywhere in the state of Washington. Now, it would be up to the attorney and the Court to argue the definition of "posess" and whether it can be argued that "private property" lends itself to the exception.

Now... all that being said... I only work for lawyers and a lot of my info comes straight from the Horse's mouth, so to speak, but it is still hallway talk until you read the results in the Court Reporter...

I'd have to say good luck to you Braundc... get a good lawyer and follow, immediately, what Wolfman said... which is exactly what my lawyer source said, too!
 
At least in Texas we can posess not carry.
I traded most my knives that were not carry knives.
It just made more sense to me.
Sorry about your loss I hope you find the perps and
let them have a little Street Justice.

Time for war:mad:
 
Here is an interesting case that more defines gravity knives a little better: student-www.uchicago.edu/~amvernon/TaylorvMcManus.htm .

I didn't specifically see balisong knives mentioned in the WA law, however I am sure that people's interpretations of what constitutes one will very greatly. I am sure that it is getting lumped in with gravity knives.

An interesting side note. I saw balisong knives for sale about six months ago at the Sportsman's Warehouse in Kennewick, WA.
 
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