Help ID this Ka-Bar

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Feb 4, 2013
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Picked this up from the flea market for a guy for $55. He claims that it's a Vietnam Era Ka-Bar. I'm a regular for him and this guy has misdated blades in the past. The first thing I noticed was that the blade shape is definitely more Bowie than the USMC Kabar that I had a while back. The pin that holds the end cap on is covered so it's harder to tell where the pin is inserted. The blade's coating seems to be worn off or sanded off. So is this Vietnam era? if not when?


Untitled by Hairlesstwinkie, on Flickr

Untitled by Hairlesstwinkie, on Flickr

Untitled by Hairlesstwinkie, on Flickr
 
I just tried to google some information for you but sadly there is not a lot of conclusive information readily available. Your blade looks like the knives made at that time but I am not sure on the tang stamp, swedge, or fuller. Your absolute best bet is to post this in the Ask Toooj thread at the top of the KA-BAR forum and await his reply. He is probably the most qualified to answer this question.

Sorry for not being able to help more.
 
I can't ID the exact time frame, but the earliest reproduction Kabar was like 1976, which is post VN.

My "guess" is the mid to late 80s, from the sheath, but I have unfortunately been wrong more than 1x.
 
From USMILITARYKNIVES.COM http://www.usmilitaryknives.com/ka-bar.htm

This the post 1977 up to the current version Ka-Bar. These knives follow the same pattern as the above knives except the finish is the baked enamel type. They have the half pinned thick pommel, the instant giveaway to a current knife. They also have the thick black spacers. Don't be fooled by this one, it is current. Note the two different scabbards, a light blonde color with rivets and a darker brown with staples. The Eagle, Globe and Anchor marking was never used in WW II, don't be fooled by it, again they are only available on current knives.
[emphasis added]

ALSO FROM FRANK:

You have your terminology mixed up. In Vietnam the only Ka-Bars [by Ka-Bar company] used were those left over from World War Two [So only thick pommels would be peened, not pinned, in WW II MK II's.]. The company Ka-Bar only made these knives for the military from 1942 until 1945 and never again. The knife profile, regardless of who it was made by, was termed a K-bar (note the generic spelling) by the Marines and the name stuck. Just like the term bandaid for all adhesive guaze strips as opposed to the term Band-Aid for the comany that makes them.

In Vietnam the current manufacturers were Utice, Camillus and Conetta. They all made the K-bar type knife for the government. By this time it was a standard government wide issue knife, not relegated to any special branch like the Marines and Navy only in WW II. Anyone who could order through the Government could order a MIL-K-20227 knife, that is what they were officially called at the time but affectionately known to this day as a K-bar.
There were still plenty of left over knives in the Navy and Marines that could have served there but the governement was ordering them again in 1961 so the supply must have been getting low.

Conclusion, not a Viet-nam knife.
 
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No,
Its not any less of a ka-Bar.
It looks to be a Ka-Bar post Vietnam and for about $90.00 plus tax you could have bought a new one. I have one in the display right now. So it's not a collectable like the WWII era ones are.
 
No,
Its not any less of a ka-Bar.
It looks to be a Ka-Bar post Vietnam and for about $90.00 plus tax you could have bought a new one. I have one in the display right now. So it's not a collectable like the WWII era ones are.

So is this extra "Bowie" look just a style of that time or was the original design the modern reproductions? Sorry I don't know my Ka-Bars that well. For everyone who contributed, thank you very much.
 
The reproductions match the specs with respect to material, blade shape and dimensions, etc. The liberties taken with this knife are simply the marriage of various periods of WW2 production. The thick pommel and blade stamp was part of Gen 1 and Gen 2 (the original - round peened pommel tang and the square peened.)

The "pinned on 1 side" was part of the Gen 4 mods. The 9 staples in the sheath are, I believe, a Gen 2 thing, as Gen 1 was 9 rivets and G3/4 was 7 staples.

If I have any of this out of order, sac troop can correct my errors. He's forgotten more than I've learned.
 
So correct me if I'm wrong. This is a Gen 2 reproduction as indicated by the sheath and the pommel or is the knife a gen 4 while the sheath is gen 2?

in the end, this is a knife that I can bet on my life on right?
 
It is simply a Kabar produced reproduction of the WW2 era 1219C2 USN/USMC fighting/utility knife.

Your knife was most likely made in the 80s or 90s. It is NOT a Gen anything reproduction. When they chose to produce a reproduction knife, Kabar simply took features from several of the various modifications that the WW2 Navy Department made to the production contracts as actual use experience and manufacturing costs/production time reductions were applied.

The knife is a damn good user. I have 4 of the same knife that I rotate through doing farm work. I have never had an issue with one of these knives.
 
So is this extra "Bowie" look just a style of that time or was the original design the modern reproductions? Sorry I don't know my Ka-Bars that well. For everyone who contributed, thank you very much.

After the Bowie Knife era ended (generally when repeating handguns became widely used), a number of bowie-style knives came along, typically smaller. Genuine Bowie Knives were not limited to clipped-point knives, but a poorly-informed consensus arose that a "Bowie Knife" had to have a clipped point.

The WWII MK II knife was supposedly loosely based on a very popular civilian knife - the Marble's "Ideal." That is apparently incorrect.

 
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Dang, I learned a lot on this thread. Thanks guys!! I don't normally shop for this type of Kabar, but the information you all put out was extremely helpful.
 
After the Bowie Knife era ended (generally when repeating handguns became widely used), a number of bowie-style knives came along, typically smaller. Genuine Bowie Knives were not limited to clipped-point knives, but a poorly-informed consensus arose that a "Bowie Knife" had to have a slipped point.

The WWII MK II knife was supposedly loosely based on a very popular civilian knife - the Marble's "Ideal."


The WW2 MK2 knives were based on the KA-BAR hunting knife model 571 which was available in 5, 6, and 7" blades. The easiest way to tell the newer ones from the WW2 knives is the lettering on the blades. The WW2 knives have a very thin lettering while the re-issues all have the letters in very thick deep stamped lettering which can be seen quite easily.
 
Ah yes. The chicken or the egg.

The year is 1942, the fighting on a tiny island in the Pacific named Guadalcanal is the fiercest yet encountered. While the Marines are slugging it out, often hand to hand, the subject of a fighting knife is again brought to the forefront. At this time the only general issue edged weapon is the bayonet. Enter Colonel John M. Davis and Major Howard E. America. These two officers were given the task of designing a knife that would "fill all the demands that could be made upon it, while standardizing a common knife for the Navy and the Marine Corps". A pretty tall order considering the knife was needed right now ! So with this order in hand the two met with various leading knife manufacturers to decide on a plan of action. With the need being immediate it was apparent to all that the knife would have to closely resemble what was being produced at the time, i.e. leather handle, carbon steel blade, leather scabbard etc.. The design settled on was the Marbles Ideal blade pattern made in a 7 1/2 " blade with a flat pommel so it could be used for pounding in tent pegs or other utility chores. The companies chosen for this project were Boker, Camillus, Case, Pal, Robeson, and Union Cutlery. Prototypes were quickly made and issued to some officers and men returning from Guadalcanal for evaluation. The knives were universally accepted by all using them and gained a quick approval in November 1942. Contracts were quickly given to Boker, Camillus, Pal, Robeson, and Union for 1,200,000 knives, Case was left off due to other production commitments for the military. The knife was officially called the Mark II by the Navy and the U.S.M.C. Fighting / Utility knife by the Marine Corps. The original contract stated that the makers name, address and branch of service be stamped into the blade. The government changed this in 1944 for ease of manufacture and stocking as both knives were identical. The contracts given are listed below.

http://usmilitaryknives.com/okca_1996.htm and several other authorities.

The Ideal apparently came out in 1899-1901 (depending on what you read). When the patent expired, and as with the Woodcraft, everybody - here and in Europe, came out with their versions, including Union Cutlery.
 
It's just my opinion, but the Union Cut Co model 571 and the MK2 knives don't look that much like an Ideal other than that they are leather handled straight knives. I don't need much of an education on the evolution of hunting or U.S. issue military knives, I have been collecting and studying them for over 50 years and have a fairly astute understanding of them. Union Cut had a knife with a blade similar to the Woodcraft that was introduced before or simultaneously as the Woodcraft.
 
It's just my opinion, but the Union Cut Co model 571 and the MK2 knives don't look that much like an Ideal other than that they are leather handled straight knives. I don't need much of an education on the evolution of hunting or U.S. issue military knives, I have been collecting and studying them for over 50 years and have a fairly astute understanding of them. Union Cut had a knife with a blade similar to the Woodcraft that was introduced before or simultaneously as the Woodcraft.

Fifty years is a good start. :thumbup:

Not sure how long Frank has been in the field, or all the others, but a minority opinion - even a unique opinion, can be correct. Documented facts would be better.

The fact seems to be that Union Razor did not exist when Marble's brought out the Ideal. But we should all be open to new information.
 
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