HELP!!! Knife Making Supplies

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DEVINEGAN

Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
6
Hello- I've been away from knife making for about 20 years. I'm looking for a good place to order steel and brass for guards/pins. I would really appreciate any advice/websites/suggestions.
Thank you very much!
Devin
 
right here in the knifemakers for sale forum you can find steel and other stuff . Also Admiral steel seems to have the best prices for ATS-34 .
 
Thank you very much. I've been looking at 440C steel (When I used to make knives as a kid we made them out of discarded saw blades from a local timber mill), any recommendations..? I had no idea there were so many steel options. I'd appreciate any advice! Devin
 
440C is a good knife steel and has excellent stain resistance. When it was new, it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. There are "better" steels out there, but better all depends on what you're wanting to do with the knife. 440C will make a very serviceable and functional knife that is as close to truly stainless as you will likely get. Other similar steels include ATS34 and 154CM. CPM154 is a variant of 154CM that has a bit more wear resistance, toughness, and hardness potential as well as excellent machinability characteristics. O-1 is what I started with and still use to a large extent. It makes an excellent knife and is pretty easy to work. Other carbon steels that work well include 52100, 1084, and 1095. These and O-1 are not stainless.

FYI, the stainless steels mentioned above (440C, 154CM, CPM154, ATS34) all require fairly rigorous heat treatments involving high temps and long soaks at temp. They can all be outsourced to excellent heat treaters, but you'll need a kiln to heat treat at home. The carbon steels listed can be more readily heat treated using a forge, though O-1 likes to have a soak at temperature of 10-20 minutes.

--nathan
 
Nathan & Smitty, thank you for your replies. I'll probably use the knifes mainly for hunting and as gifts for hunting buddies. Sounds like either 01 or 440c might work. Any suggestions on heat treating. Last time I heat treated I followed a series of hand written instructions from my shop teacher that involved a series of kitchen oven/water baths... I'm guessing from what y'all are saying I probably didn't do much to the steel?
Devin
 
Even your most basic knife steel needs to see temperatures of around 1450-1500F to reach hardening temperatures. Then they have to be quenched from that temperature at the appropriate speed for the steel to harden. Stainless steels need anywhere from 1850 to 2200 and need to be held at those temperatures for anywhere from 20-60 minutes. Most stainless steels are air hardening, but can benefit from plate quenching to draw the heat out faster. Other steel such as O-1 can be quenched in oil. O-1 is a good steel. I heat treat my O-1 at 1475 for 20 minutes followed by a quench in AAA oil. You could use canola oil as well for O-1 in a pinch. The hardest thing is controlling the temperature for that long of a time. You definitely don't want to over heat. You will get hardness from O-1 even with just a few minutes hold at temperature, you just have to hold longer to get the best from it. A way to see if you're close to temperature without a thermocouple is to use a magnet. It will tell you when the steel is above around 1414F when it stops being attracted to the magnet. You'll have to heat it a bit more than that and watch the color of the steel. Watch for shadows in the steel, and as they subside, you'll see the steel take on a new vibrance. That's when you're in the neighborhood. Make sure the light is dim and consistent so you can judge it equally each time. Using color is very difficult to do, but with some experimentation, you can get in the ball park. The best thing aside from a heat treating oven would be to build a muffled forge with a thermocouple and a pyrometer to read the temp inside a stainless steel muffle. Then you can regulate your gas flow to try and control the temperature and hold it where you need it.

After hardening, you need to perform a couple of 1 hour tempering cycles in the kitchen oven at 350-450 depending on what hardness you're shooting for. This takes the brittleness out of the steel in addition to converting over some retained austentite into martensite.

It's all doable, it just takes a bit of work and problem solving.

--nathan
 
Also, while O-1 is a great knife steel, it isn't stainless. It will rust if not cared for, but could do a great job for what you're planning to use it for. Just be aware that it will likely develop a natural patina with use, especially in food prep or game dressing. This is a natural oxidation process and doesn't hurt the steel. Many consider even desirable. You can artificially patina the blade using something like mustard to pre-age the blade, so to speak. Make sure you wipe it down after each use, and oil it periodically. Also, a higher grit finish will ward off rust better than a lower grit finish.

--nathan
 
TruGrit.com is also good provider of 416 SS pin material, 416 bar material and has good selection and prices on abrasives...belts.

I very much like doing business with Pop's Knife Supplies....Jim Poplin, and Alpha Knife Supplies...Chuck Bybee. Also while there are a number of very pro-knifemaker suppliers, Terry Summers at Admiral Steel is a fine fellow to work with and going direct to Crucible Steel for steel is good also.

Welcome back to the trade!
 
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