Help making a 3 day desert kit.

H

HK2001

Joined
May 3, 2005
Messages
159
Hey all.. I've been absent for some time... so let me catch up real quick.

On June 8th my wife gave birth to a beautiful little girl. Our first, and according to her, our last until science allows men to carry babies. (she was in labor for 71 hours.. I don't blame her)

Anyway.. I've moved from Florida to Arizona, I quit college and moved out here to a well paying job..

The point of this post is simple.. I'm looking for assistance In creating a 72 hour camping kit. My primary target is the desert out here.. although I'd like to hit areas in Northern Mexico and California too.

I know nothing about doing this in areas with little or no water. The heat and temp differences (100+ at night and I'm told it can get below 60 some nights out here).

Thanks for the help all. I'll post more later.

-Justin (hk)
 
Hey Justin, Good going and congrats on the new member of the household. It's good to see you posting.

All I gotta say about the desert is you need lots of WATER!!!! A 3 day kit, you should have 5 gallons of water on hand if it's just you. While at Big Mtn., Az. in July, we easily averaged 1 gallon per day per person and we used 2 packets of Emergen-C daily to help rehydrate, cause water won't do it all on it's own.

By no means did 2 weeks on the mtn make me knowledgeable, but this is what I'd put together and then find out from the experts how I needed to fine tune.

6'-10' length of surgical tubing
water purification filter
chemical treatment
pot with lid and bail
maps of the areas you'll be in
tarp or poncho
a good hiking staff
ball of Jute twine (natural-untreated)
firestarting capabilities
Wool watch cap
Smart wool socks
Wool coat
wide brimmed hat
Leather gloves
Sunscreen
Lip balm
sunglasses
SAK w/saw
Whistle
starflash mirror
LED light
Some sort of food gathering kit to catch snakes, birds, etc.
FAK
Emergen-C
 
When I go camping in the southeastern oregon desert to my regular load I add an 18" titanium tube about the internal diameter of a large drinking straw which I got from a buddy. It is cut across at 45 degrees on one end to make a penetrator and some surgical tubing that fits perfectly on the other end is also carried. I have successfully used this contraption to recover some not so tasty water out of dry river bed bends near vegetation and I figure it can tap vines or some such in other environments.

The other thing I add are a couple black and a couple of clear trashbags to capture/transport water for later boiling, make solar stills, rain traps, or capture dew if needed.

If due to your infant circumstances you are just car camping for awhile, just haul all of the water you will need and then you can just concentrate on getting a tent or other shelter that will withstand really big wind gusts, which are a regular feature in terrain with huge local temp swings.
 
Boats said:
When I go camping in the southeastern oregon desert to my regular load I add an 18" titanium tube about the internal diameter of a large drinking straw which I got from a buddy. It is cut across at 45 degrees on one end to make a penetrator and some surgical tubing that fits perfectly on the other end is also carried. I have successfully used this contraption to recover some not so tasty water out of dry river bed bends near vegetation and I figure it can tap vines or some such in other environments.

.
Click to expand...


GREAT idea. Thanks.
 
My daughter will be staying at home for these excursions.. I work a 3 day rotating shift (3 days 6am-6pm // 3 days off // 3 days 6pm-6am // 3 days off-- repeat)

and my wife has Ok'd solo trips every few weeks.. for a night or 2, so a 3 day kit is perfect.

I'm looking at the Camelbak BFM
Load up with 2600 cu. in. (42 L) of gear and up to two 3-liter reservoirs of water internally. Attach two more 3-liter ThermoBaks® externally, for a total of 12 liters of water.
Click to expand...

As far as obtaining water out in the desert, that's pretty much out of the question. I took a day hike out.. and this is the "rainy" season... There's not much out there... dried streams.. and the only plants outthere that have a water tapping potential are cacti... In paticular the Saguaro and Barrel Cacti... but both are protected.. and fines are insane.

I've visted out here before.. but my wife has never been this far west.. so we went driving through the state lands.. There was a giant Saguaro about 100' off the road.. so we parked, and I offered to take her picture by it.. Int turn, she took mine. I touched this thing with ONE finger. Stupid thing to do... This ranger, who had obviously been watching us comes out of nowhere and TRIES TO FINE ME FOR TOUCHING THIS CACTUS WITH ONE FINGER.

Long story short.. I'm never ever touching one again... ever. Much less stabbing it and trying to suck water from it.

Sorry for the rant.. :confused:

I've been toying around with solarstills, but after setting up 5 from sundown to just after sunrise.. I got less then a cup of water. I know longbow is right.. at least a gallon a day per person.. but setting up 80 stills to get that gallon is just not practical.

as for Longbow's list (Thanks man.. a nice starting point)

6'-10' length of surgical tubing
water purification filter
chemical treatment - Done
pot with lid and bail - Done
maps of the areas you'll be in
tarp or poncho -Done
a good hiking staff - Done
ball of Jute twine (natural-untreated) (100' of paracord count?)
firestarting capabilities Mag. Glass, Ferro, Bic, Trioxane
Wool watch cap
Smart wool socks
Wool coat
wide brimmed hat
Leather gloves -Done
Sunscreen
Lip balm
sunglasses - Done
SAK w/saw - Done
Whistle
starflash mirror
LED light - Done
Some sort of food gathering kit to catch snakes, birds, etc. Blowgun // + sidearm as soon as I get an Arizona Pistol permit. (Mountain Lions are apparently common here)
FAK - Done
Emergen-C
Click to expand...

Another question.. Involving knives.. Does the soil composition in the desert do anything to screw with metal? Since being here, my EDC (Gerber Covert / LM Wave) have been developing spot rust. And you can taste the acidity (or is it alkaline?!) in the air when it's windy.
 
HK2001 said:
My daughter will be staying at home for these excursions.. I work a 3 day rotating shift (3 days 6am-6pm // 3 days off // 3 days 6pm-6am // 3 days off-- repeat)

and my wife has Ok'd solo trips every few weeks.. for a night or 2, so a 3 day kit is perfect.

I'm looking at the Camelbak BFM


As far as obtaining water out in the desert, that's pretty much out of the question. I took a day hike out.. and this is the "rainy" season... There's not much out there... dried streams.. and the only plants outthere that have a water tapping potential are cacti... In paticular the Saguaro and Barrel Cacti... but both are protected.. and fines are insane.

I've visted out here before.. but my wife has never been this far west.. so we went driving through the state lands.. There was a giant Saguaro about 100' off the road.. so we parked, and I offered to take her picture by it.. Int turn, she took mine. I touched this thing with ONE finger. Stupid thing to do... This ranger, who had obviously been watching us comes out of nowhere and TRIES TO FINE ME FOR TOUCHING THIS CACTUS WITH ONE FINGER.

Long story short.. I'm never ever touching one again... ever. Much less stabbing it and trying to suck water from it.

Sorry for the rant.. :confused:

I've been toying around with solarstills, but after setting up 5 from sundown to just after sunrise.. I got less then a cup of water. I know longbow is right.. at least a gallon a day per person.. but setting up 80 stills to get that gallon is just not practical.

as for Longbow's list (Thanks man.. a nice starting point)



Another question.. Involving knives.. Does the soil composition in the desert do anything to screw with metal? Since being here, my EDC (Gerber Covert / LM Wave) have been developing spot rust. And you can taste the acidity (or is it alkaline?!) in the air when it's windy.
Click to expand...


You can open carry in AZ so a permit really isn’t necessary. The water question bugs me also since I also live in AZ. If you are going hiking over night, plan a loop near a road or two-track and cache 5 gallons of water before you start. Look on the map for windmills and cattle tanks, also look on the map for springs up in the mountains. Also in the mountains there are mine shafts all over, most are now full or rain water or seepage can be risky but it’s very doable. Last, talking to the locals, as more people move in from out of state, a lot of stuff gets forgotten. I know where several springs and caves are that have water, but that are pretty much forgotten about, thx to talking to the old timers that live here.
 
I would not rely to heavily on the solar stills. I have never had much luck with them. I am not trying to be negetive, I just havn't had much luck.
 
I've started carrying the untreated Jute twine, because it can be used as a firestarting material, as well as cordage. Not as strong as paracord, but it holds it's own pretty well. We use it for our sweat lodges, which are a willow frame, lashed together with Jute twine.

I saw many in Az openly carrying sidearms. The Mojave rattler was the most common snake I saw. They hide in holes in the ground and strike out from the hole, so be aware of that as you're out and about. Have you seen the speed at which some snakes travel on top of the ground. I was amazed, but didn't see which snake it was. I'd doubt that I could have outrun it.

It might be a good idea to carry some lite weight pegs for tie downs.

The first thing I learned while in Az was that everything in the desert bites, stings and pokes. I dared to walk barefoot after the sun had gone down and I guess I stepped on something, because my heal started aching and burning. When I had someone take a look, there were 2 black stingers in my heal. Plus several very fine stickers. Took awhile for them to get them all out. Needless to say, I didn't do that again.:(

We heard a commotion coming from over a rise, so a few of us grabbed weapons and went to investigate. Seems a lion got into the goats that the old Indian rancher raised and we got there just in time to see it make off with a meal. Three nights later we heard a rifle shot and the cat ended up on the old mans tanning rack.
 
I wonder what might leach into standing water near Any mine?
As stated water is the key issue.
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Howdy, and welcome!

One of the first things I'd recommend is that you pick up, and read your way through, Cody Lundin's book "98.6 Degrees: The Art of Keeping your A__ Alive". The book is very good about equipping you for the very basics, and especially useful in Arizona is that that's where Lundin lives--so he's not going to waste your time talking about how to kill polar bears or drink sap from jungle vines. The book was recommended to me by the head of one of the local search-and-rescue outfits after a highly-publicized rescue during a freak snowstorm a few months back. Lundin does have some debatable suggestions--there was a thread on precisely that subject a few months back, called something like "98.6 blasphemy"--but it's a good start.

Another thing I have taken to doing is carrying a pretty-comprehensive survival kit--including gallons of water--all the time in every car my family owns. It's not so much the planned, multi-day excursions that get you, as the little day-hikes or wrong turns that turn a 1-hour trip into a days-long one.

Water use out here, especially in the summer, is truly beyond belief. Just took three of my kids out to a museum a week and a half ago; museum was in the middle of Phoenix, and had an outdoor trail associated with it. In the short time we were there, we went through a full gallon of water--though, admittedly, some of it I was using to dampen their hair to keep them from overheating. Oh--relatedly--be prepared for the heat to drastically reduce your stamina for major exertion. You'll find that even seasoned marathon-runners suddenly find a short run is completely beyond their ability when the temperature gets to a certain point. It's not a matter of machismo; it's just biochemistry.

I'm going to be really interested to read the rest of the ideas on this thread. See you out there.
 
One thing I didn't see on ANY of you lists was a shovel, i ( and many others consider an axe, shovel and saw to be back country requirements (and "backcountry" STARTS 5 feet off the road)
Stills work collecting the water evaporating from the ground, etc., therefore I would think that they should be dug out in the evening (as you did) and left all the next day and night.
If your vehicle should become stuck (don't even THINK of driving in a wash), STAY WITH THE VEHICLE, it's larger than you are.
 
as others have stated and you have mentioned.. water water water... You will not get ANY useable water out of a cactus unless it is via solar still evap. Don't rely on that myth. Carry as much as you can, then add 2 gallons.

You did not mention your skill set, so I will just add a few words of caution.
(Note, I was born and raised in Phx, lived there for 33 years, camping, fishing, hunting, hiking, backpacking, you name it... )
Major thing to remember, Florida heat and Phx heat are two completely different critters. I went twice as fast/far in Fla summers than I ever could have in Phx. You can easily suck through 3L of water hiking Camelback Mountain, and that only takes 3 hours or so. (Camelback Mtn is a great test of your summer water use under excercise)

Understand snakes. Spiders I wouldn't worry about too much, you can get back home before you are dead. The rattlers will make your day deadly...

In my kit:(not complete, but certainly worth mention)
topo maps (and the ability to read them)
Datrex water pouches to suplement 'regular drinkin water'
long sleeve cotton dress shirt (Yes, LONG sleeves)
Big rim hat with SUPERB ventilation
bandanna X3 (white, black, orange)
sunglasses (pola, wrap around, 100%UV)
sunscreen
.22 and/or .45 pending activity
poking stick (you'll be poking more than walking with it LOL )
GPS
wool ski cap (118 in the day can see 60 at night in the sticks, that swing can be deadly)

Not in my kit for a reason:
water filter
water tabs
water purification of any kind
(not going to FIND any water out there on accident. Plan your water)

notes...
IF you ever see a mountain lion count yourself EXTREMELY lucky. They are not common. They are the most elusive of all the big cats, you are more than likely to run accross coyotes, snakes, and scorps. (in your back yard along most outskirts)

stay out of the mine shafts unless you have that skill set and gear, more people have died in mine shafts than mountain lion attacks.. :)

Leave a precise hiking plan, and STICK TO IT. Wander off the trail on your next trip, when it WILL be your trail.

Open carry in Az is AWESOME!!! no permits, no mess, BUT learn the car carry laws!!! (still great, but can be catchy)

Cache water along your route, then cache some more.

Leave some water in your car for when you return to it out of water because 10 gallons wasn't enough, and 20 gallons was too heavy :)

Did I mention water? :)

If you are in a survival situation, move at night, and sit during the day. Learn to nav by stars. UNLESS you have a vehicle, then stay with it.

Best of luck, Az is a great place to really hone survival skills, and see what you can do.
 
Something no one has mentioned yet: if you wind up in higher altitudes, it can get a lot colder than 60 at night. Unfortunately I can't give any precise numbers, since the last time I did desert hiking/camping was over 5 years ago, and none of the park websites seem to have altitude listings for campsites.
 
Kat013 said:
Something no one has mentioned yet: if you wind up in higher altitudes, it can get a lot colder than 60 at night. Unfortunately I can't give any precise numbers, since the last time I did desert hiking/camping was over 5 years ago, and none of the park websites seem to have altitude listings for campsites.
Click to expand...

a good rule of thumb is 2 degrees for every 1000 ft of elevation
 
Welcome to the Great American Southwest! Head in any direction from a city and there will be open dirt roads for your to explore. In the cities there are large mountain parks to hike, people have gotten lost and died in them.

Our family (mom, dad, and 4 boys) hike often. We like to carry a Camelbak, wide brim hat, sunglasses and sunscreen. A wet bandanna hanging from your head, held on with a hat can provide a nice cool feeling when it is hot or wrapped around your neck. Gatorade will help you feel better when you are drained from the heat and sweating.

If you get lost don't count on finding or making any water. If you are low on water do not eat anything! Your best hope of being found is a signal mirror and a fire. Use a real glass mirror not a Star-Flash!

Teddy bear cholla is a real problem. It will not come out with a comb, tweezers or your fingers; you need pliers. Take some with you or you will be wearing cholla stickers until you get to some pliers. I have been watching where I was stepping and stopped to take a leak and found them stuck to my shin or shoes when I started walking again.
 
HK2001 said:
I'm looking at the Camelbak BFM


As far as obtaining water out in the desert, that's pretty much out of the question. I took a day hike out.. and this is the "rainy" season... There's not much out there... dried streams.. and the only plants outthere that have a water tapping potential are cacti... In paticular the Saguaro and Barrel Cacti... but both are protected.. and fines are insane.

I've visted out here before.. but my wife has never been this far west.. so we went driving through the state lands.. There was a giant Saguaro about 100' off the road.. so we parked, and I offered to take her picture by it.. Int turn, she took mine. I touched this thing with ONE finger. Stupid thing to do... This ranger, who had obviously been watching us comes out of nowhere and TRIES TO FINE ME FOR TOUCHING THIS CACTUS WITH ONE FINGER.
Click to expand...

You can't get water from a Saguaro, and getting moistrue from a barrel cactus is more trouble than it's worth. If you know the area, there are places to find water but, it depends on the time of year. I use to hike the Superstitions quite a bit and during X-mas it had muledeer and streams running all over but durning the summer it was 10 degrees on that side of hell.

Using a Camelbak is a good idea, but you should also have a smaller canteen with you. If you puncture the camelbak you have some kind of backup. On a side note, if you hike in winter, keep your water covered. Once, a buddy and I were out over new years and, he left his waterpack out, leaning up next to his pack and over night. It froze. I had a good laugh.

A side story about the Saguaro,
Once a man took his brand new AR-15 out in the scrub and decided to test it out on a 100 year old Saguaro. The guy open's up and almost cuts the big cactus in two. As the man is changing mags the Sagaro gives way and falls on top of the poor guy, killing him. He had to be cut free with a chainsaw.
 
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