Help me choose a gun

Wow, not to get off topic but that bear charge in the video was just mean looking. Great reaction time from the guy with the gun too.
 
For Self defense I would get what your comfortable with and can shoot well. Most any caliber will work but I would suggest something at least as big as a 9mm or .38 spl. As already stated, try to shoot as many different guns as you can before buying. My local range rents pistols for cheap, check to see if yours does. Guns are just as addicting as knifes so be ready to grab a few.

My opinion would be to get a Ruger .22 (auto or revolver is up to you, both are great guns) after you can shoot accurately and confidently I would upgrade. This could be to a 9mm (Glock is cheap and utilitarian) or .38 special (S&W J frame also cheap). All of these guns have a great reputation and could be had for a reasonable price. I listed these calibers because I think they are good for people new to shooting/guns and the 9mm is considerably cheaper to shoot then .40 or .45's.
 
Sevorius said:
if you want compact or subcompact, check out a glock 32 or 33 in .357sig (.357 auto) or if you want a fullsize get a glock 31. the ballistics on the .357sig are extremely good, and on top of that it uses a tapered casing like a rifle which greatly improves reliability because the seam where the jacket meets the casing does not come into contact with the feed ramp so it can't jam as easily as other rounds. i have a G31 and i love both the round and the gun. the kick is only slightly more than a .40 but the power and reliability are quite a bit higher. If you are going to get an auto, read up on the .357sig before you buy, trust me you won't regret it. If you decide to stick with a revolver, .357 mag will give you the best combination of size and performance.

as for 9mm+p+, that kind of round puts a lot of stress on a gun, and while glocks are made to take it, i just don't see why you would buy a 9mm and use +p+ ammo when you could just buy a .357sig and get the same performance, increased reliability, and still have high capacity. my G31 holds 15+1. you can check out the ballistics here http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ballistics/ .357sig and .357mag are very similar when fired from the same length barrel. it really does give you get the best of all aspects- high power, high capacity, high reliability. add to all that glock's legendary reputation for reliability and durability and you have a damn fine gun.
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Good points about the Glock. Really not a poor choice in any caliber. However, it's not for everyone. Some people prefer wheelguns, some prefer autos. And those that prefer autos, sometimes detest Glocks. The best advice, as many here have suggested, is try several guns out, if you can. Then, take a class in how to use the gun that you choose. If you're into Glocks, the .357 Sig is a great round, but it takes some getting used to, because of the recoil. QA bit more than a 9mm, but less than a .357 mag. My personal preference for woods carry is a Glock 29, in 10mm. Ballistics comparable to a .41 magnum, which will take care of anything in the 48 states pretty much. And the G29 is only a fraction larger than the G19. 10 round capacity, though, unless you get the G20 mags, which are 15 rounds. It does take a bit of practice to get used to, as it is a jumpy mother, and the price of 10mm makes it a bit pricey to practice with. But aside from that, it's a great woods round for the shooter willing to put in the time to master it.
 
Hiracer said:
Why do you think you need a gun?

During my 10 years in Alaska, I ran into bears, wolves, moose, woverines, cariboo, and musk ox. Even got chased by a moose on a jog once. Never needed a gun, except one night I got scared about a bunch of drunks camping down the road. We just got up and left.

I packed a 30.06 or 12 gauge, then a .44 mag revolver, then bear mace, then nothing but a knife and a camera. Took about two years to shed the guns. Another three to get rid of the bear mace.

People aren't rational about risks. The local paper in Anchorage did an article in the early 1990s noting that dogs killed more people in Alaska than all the wild animals combined. When is the last time you packed heat to protect yourself from Fido?
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Mr. Murphy is notorious for stepping up behind folks and tapping them on the shoulder when they least expect it. I've had a number of dangerous encounters that were highly improbable. I happened to be on campus at UT when Charles Whitman opened up on students from the Texas Tower. A few months before that I was on duty as counselor in a men's dorm when a guy entered my room with a single action revolver. He was a big dude and the smell of alcohol on his breath was strong enough to knock you over. He drew the revolver, placed it in my stomach and cocked it. Took me ten minutes to calmly persuade him to put the gun away. My problematic encounters with four legged critters are limited to wild dogs and Javelina, but the woods where I hike are loaded with bear and cougar. I've never had to use a gun, and hope I never do, but I prefer to have the option available just in case.
 
I packed a .44 special 5 shot 295 S&W today for 7 miles. Great hiking gun.
 
With the OP's main concern being the 2-legged type predator and protection of the family, I would recommend the Glock 19.

15+1 capacity in 9mm and with modern defensive hollow-points the caliber debate is about effective as vanilla vs. chocolate.

I would recommend a 115gr Jacketed Hollow Point or a 124gr JHP. No need to go to +p or +p+ really.

The Glock 19 is user friendly and reliable. Minimal maintenance and weather/corrosion resistant as is.

You can find a decent used G19 between $300 - $400 and some police trade-ins for under $350 if you look and in they are usually in good shape.

The 9mm round also facilitates practice as 115gr full metal jacket is not overly expensive for practice.

I would recommend seeking professional instruction or someone you know that is reliable and had a good knowledge of shooting fundamentals.

For reference, I have been a firearms trainer/instructor for over 12 years and shooting much longer. I'm also a Glock armorer but don't have an allegiance to Glock beyond other firearms. Glocks work, period.

.380 is at best a back-up caliber and even with good round selection, a marginal man-stopper.

I carry a P3AT as a back-up but would recommend something more substantial as a primary.

YMMV
 
If there's a low likelihood of black bear problems and no chance of meeting a brownie, I carry my pocket revolver---S&W 340PD (scandium and titanium). Really punishing to shoot with 357 rounds but still surprisingly accurate at 7-10 yds. Tolerable with 38+P loads and not that bad with plain 38 spl. rounds. Weighs about 12 oz empty, under a pound loaded---incredibly easy to carry. Big drawback is the high cost but you can get 38 spl. alloy frame models for a lot less.

DancesWithKnives
 
raindog101 said:
My personal preference for woods carry is a Glock 29, in 10mm. Ballistics comparable to a .41 magnum, which will take care of anything in the 48 states pretty much. And the G29 is only a fraction larger than the G19. 10 round capacity, though, unless you get the G20 mags, which are 15 rounds. It does take a bit of practice to get used to, as it is a jumpy mother, and the price of 10mm makes it a bit pricey to practice with. But aside from that, it's a great woods round for the shooter willing to put in the time to master it.
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+1
on the 10mm, I have the 20 and ammo is a little pricey, but 15+1 of the powerful 10mm is a lot.
A little background on the 10mm, it was designed for the FBI but the recoil was more than they wanted so they stepped it down, and that is where the .40 s&w was born.
 
FWIW I personally carry a Kahr P9. I have had other small guns and this I like the best. My reasons are mainly the ease of carry. It is so comfortable I am more likely to have it with me. Others that I had I would not always have on my person because they were more difficult to carry, for me at least. And this reasoning falls back to same as some of the knife discussions. The best gun ( or knife ) is the one you have with you when you need it. I find myself carrying the Kahr much more than anything else I have owned. I also have many (not as many as a lot of you guys) fixed blade knives. I rarely take a chopper hiking unless it's a GB axe, I mostly take a small 4". But I "ALWAYS" have my Sebenza on my person and about the same with the Kahr. So if I pull over and walk in the woods or stop to look for mushrooms or whatever, most of the time I have the Seb and Kahr and LM wave. The Glock was considered but it didn't fit my hand and I didn't care for the trigger but like already stated by someone, some people either like it or they don't. Yes from what I have read and seen they are a very good pistol also. I personally do like the reliability of a wheel gun but don't like to carry one inside my waitband. I also like carrying extra magazines over speed loaders. I do understand there are many other choices that might be better for different purposes but this is the one for me. I am not knocking anything that has been said, I only wanted to give my opinion, that's all. :) Also, I am in Ohio. I have never been to big bear country so my choice might change, I don't know.

As already stated, try to find a friend with guns or go to a good gun shop and try many. If you plan to only purchase one gun and get a ccw think of which one you will be more likely to carry the most. And remember, what ever you choose, learn it well! Practice until it become second nature. Get some plastic spring loaded practice rounds and practice reloading in the dark and with gloves one and anything you can think of. This is very valuable! I used to be firearms instructor on PD for a while and it amazed me how many of the officers would just stand there when they ran out of ammo or had a jam. I would load a spent casing into many of their mags to create this jam in order to see their reaction and I was truly amazed. I was also amazed at the fact the same ones would not practice and would always react the same. I hoped and prayed they would never be in a shoot out! So again, what ever you get...practice, practice, practice!
 
Sorry, I know this is OT but did anyone else notice in the bear video that there were no PFDs ? A guided trip in the middle of nowhere (fly-in). Mustang AirForce are pretty 'invisible' to wear...
 
That mama brown bear was protecting her cubs. The hunters were making noise - as you are told to - that would have been a disaster without the gun - which we still don't know what it was. A revolver would always be my choice for protection. I owned a hi cap 21 (.45 ACP) for years - and it was a fine firearm - but I hated it - almost never kept a round in the chamber. It had plenty of firepower - with +2 extenders, I had 15+1 rounds. Still, for a civilian, 5 is plenty, so I bought two AMT DAO 'Backups' in .45 ACP. The last time I took them to the range, they both hiccuped, one stovepiped the second round, one flat wouldn't feed. Weak mag springs. I replaced them - and traded them that day (5.5yr ago.) for a S&W 696 & 296 - two 5-shot .44 Specials. The 296, the larger of the two below, was mentioned earlier. It isn't a great choice against large four legged animals due to it's ammo restrictions - a regular 4" 629 .44 Magnum would be better - and Wally World carries that ammo.

For most of the eastern area threats - especially the 2-legged kind - a .38 Special is great - a +P rated one, like the Airweight S&W 642 below, is even better - and can be pocket carried. Loaded with the venerable 'FBI' load, the +P 158gr LHPSWC, it is more effective, according to 'one shot stop' statistics, than ball ammo from a .45 ACP. You can - and should - plink away with light ammo, like 130gr MC from UMC, etc - and .38's are everywhere - to build up your experience. New, they run $400-$450 now new - and you have S&W's warranty an 800# away - with free overnite pu & return on their dime, should work ever be needed to be done. I had Rugers... still have a few... love S&Ws!

I wouldn't have a KelTec if you gave it to me. As a part-time range officer at a public range, I saw too many failure to fire - or feed - problems with them. My life is worth a .38 Special or 9mm as a minimum. I know they are 'better' now... but, still... besides, I reload - and revolvers are just more polite - they don't toss your empties into the woods. A dud round in a semi-auto can be a nightmare - in a revolver, it clears with another trigger pull. I've had two Winchester commercial rounds not fire over the years (.45 ACP and .38 Special). Every maker has them. Both were in revolvers. The absolute most reliable .45 ACP semi I ever shot was my Glock 21 - for 9mm it was my wife's CZ-75B. My wife prefers a 2" 10 now. The S&W 10 - still available - is the original 'M&P' revolver - heritage to 1898! It was the quintessential cop - then rookie - gun - and is still being made. My best suggestion is a fairly new model, with the same lockwork, the S&W 620 - a 7-shot .357 Magnum. Plink away with .38s - even for home defense, carry .357 Magnums in the woods - buy your ammo on a Sunday at Wally World.

IMG_0207.jpg


Here they are in Robert Mika's pocket holsters. The 642 will fit in any of my pant's front pocket, while the larger 296 fits about 3/4ths of them.
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Stainz
 
Hiracer said:
Why do you think you need a gun?

During my 10 years in Alaska, I ran into bears, wolves, moose, woverines, cariboo, and musk ox. Even got chased by a moose on a jog once. Never needed a gun, except one night I got scared about a bunch of drunks camping down the road. We just got up and left.

I packed a 30.06 or 12 gauge, then a .44 mag revolver, then bear mace, then nothing but a knife and a camera. Took about two years to shed the guns. Another three to get rid of the bear mace.

People aren't rational about risks. The local paper in Anchorage did an article in the early 1990s noting that dogs killed more people in Alaska than all the wild animals combined. When is the last time you packed heat to protect yourself from Fido?
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Becoming lazy, complacent, and declawing yourself is pretty silly. Advising others to join you in being helpless is just plain stupid.
 
For around the town carry, I say take a look at the Ruger LCP. It is in .380, a tad bigger than a keltec, and is pretty cheap. The downside is, they are a mother to get ahold of!
For woods, Try a smith and wessen 686!
 
Ottoshot said:
A gun in the woods gives you the advantage. Simple as that.

Since most larger predators can be scared away with just the sound of gunshots, I would say any gun would do. I would feel protected carrying a 9mm in the woods. Chances are I would never have to actually point it at the attacking animal.

If you dont belive me, watch this. All this guy did was fire into the water infront of the charging bear. Caliber meant nothing, it was the bears instinctual fear of the gunshot that made it back down.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uMbnmLLnsfw

After watching that, tell me that that mans sidearm was useless. It saved his life, and he saved the bears as well. He could have easily put one right in the bears face.
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THAT was INCREDIBLE!!! That video shows without a question you should have some sort of handgun on hand, and be ABLE to use it in a split second.
That bear would have made a mess of those guys for sure..
 
I am surprised no one has mentioned the Springfield XD. They are lightweight along the lines of the Glocks, but seem to fit better in the hand. The Glocks can be a bit bulky, especially if you want your wife to be able to use it. I would go with .45ACP or for a little less recoil .45GAP.
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
Becoming lazy, complacent, and declawing yourself is pretty silly. Advising others to join you in being helpless is just plain stupid.
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A little harsh perhaps??

Up here in the wilds nobody can carry a handgun, and very few get killed by the wildlife. Besides, he wasn't unarmed- he still had a knife. How is determining that he was carrying too much and adjusting for HIS personal tastes lazy? I have never had to carry a gun outside of hunting, and never felt that I needed one to protect against people. Your choices may be different but calling someone lazy and stupid was out of line IMO. Remember everybody has different circumstances- and it was not like he was saying it should be illegal to carry it, just trying to be rational about the risks he was facing.

Maybe it is different because I am Canadian but still a bit more tact would have been nice rather than an attack on someone sharing their opinions.
 
CUTS LIKE A KRIS said:
A little harsh perhaps??

Up here in the wilds nobody can carry a handgun, and very few get killed by the wildlife. Besides, he wasn't unarmed- he still had a knife. How is determining that he was carrying too much and adjusting for HIS personal tastes lazy? I have never had to carry a gun outside of hunting, and never felt that I needed one to protect against people. Your choices may be different but calling someone lazy and stupid was out of line IMO. Remember everybody has different circumstances- and it was not like he was saying it should be illegal to carry it, just trying to be rational about the risks he was facing.

Maybe it is different because I am Canadian but still a bit more tact would have been nice rather than an attack on someone sharing their opinions.
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Someone starts out carrying a firearm- and subsequently (when nothing attacks them) keep downgrading until they are unarmed to save weight- safe in an imaginary bubble of safety. (Too lazy to carry the weight, too complacent and deluded to notice that they no longer are prepared)

Just because you live in a retarded society where "guns are bad, M'kay?"- doesn't change the fact that carrying one into the wilderness is a good idea. Not doing so is foolish.

I have never been in a serious car accident. Maybe I should stop wearing a seat belt. Better yet, I should suggest that nobody wear seat belts, they just get in the way, and can chafe.

To summarize:

Lazy & Complacent: "nothing has happened to me! surely this is due to Nature's inherent gentleness and kindness! Gun is heavy. . . why carry that bulky thing?"

Stupid: "I think that I should hop on a thread where someone is looking to protect himself and share my wonderful, warm, (and surely not false!) sense of security I have woven for myself out of the safe confines of my brain. Who needs to protect themselves, when most of the time nothing happens anyways! Lalalala!"

:D
 
I have and can recommend a Taurus UL M85 snubby in 38spcl. I have used it to chase away feral dogs and have a cc permit for it. I like it because it is light, small and shoots a good round. I have a Keltec P32 that I carry around town simply due to size. I prefer the 38snubby. I do have a Taurus 66 that is a 4" 7shot 357. It is a great gun but a little large. I'd go snubby unless I was planning on hunting with it.

The 3" SP101 is a good gun and has been mentioned before.

tjg
 
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