Help me Choose Photo Equip

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Nov 11, 2003
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Hey guys, I need a new DSLR for knife shots, and I'd like some recommendations. I need one that can frame shots using the LCD screen, what they call "live view" or whatever. I also need a good zoom lens that will take sharp shots to use with the new camera. I don't know if macro needs to be part of the lens, I generally shoot from 12-24" out.

Your input is appreciated, thanks
 
Man...what I need to know is how to take better photos. If anyone out there has any info on building a cheap light box, or creating a good light environment for close-ups, please let me know.

My wife has a Rebel XT with a macro, and that damned camera outsmarts both of us.

I'm sure Ken Lunde will be along sometime to share his insights and advice with both of us. If anyone else can help, please do.

Thanks.
 
I may not be up to date on newer DSLRs, but the way I understand it, they don't give you the feature of viewing what you're looking at from the LCD screen.

One good place for tons of info is here - http://www.kenrockwell.com/.

I've got a Nikon D40 and it's great, but if I was buying one today, it'd probably be a D60. These are some good cameras that'll keep you under a grand. If you want to step up to Mr. Lunde's territory, that'll be a little more! :D
 
Ken Rockwell has a bad reputation regardless if you visit a Canon forum or a Nikon forum. I wouldn't buy anything he says for a buck.
I'm a Canon guy and have been through 15 or so years and 10 or so different bodies and I've always been happy. Nikon owners will say the same.
Everyone's pushing more megapixels but that doesn't make a better camera nor a better photographer.
My personal opinion, grab a Nikon or Canon with live view (Nikon D90, Canon 40D, Canon 50D, Canon Xsi) and have at it. Don't be afraid of third party lens manufacturers like Sigma and Tokina to save some money. They have high end optics and great service. If you have a lot of money to drop, that opens up more doors.
You don't need a macro lens for knife shots, more of a mid range zoom like a 17-55... A macro will make you working distance quite substantial if you need to frame the whole knife.
A good, reputable place to shop is www.bhphotovideo.com. I've spent thousands there and they're great.
 
I'm a Nikon guy so I'll only speak from what I know.

First off, how much do you wanna spend?

I recommend the Nikon D90; it has Live View and other than being a super capable camera, you get the added bonus of full 720p HD video.

As for a zoom lens, if you want a good, sharp one, you need to splurge. Look into the Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8.

One of other lenses you will want is the Nikkor 50mm prime f/1.8; at around 100 bucks it is a steal for how fast the lens is, and you will get some fantastic ptictures.

I'm FAIRLY knowledgeable with DSLRs so I'll try to chime in and help out.
 
Oh, and +1 on BH photo, they are a fantastic and reliable place to do business, and usually have excellent prices.
 
I'm a Nikon person also but cannon makes great cameras too. I agree, that a macro lens isn't required, but they sure are a lot of fun to have. I'd start out with a 18 - 55 mm zoom or thereabouts. Spend a little extra money on the lens as opposed to getting the basic kit lens if there is an upgrade.

Unless you have a physical disability that prevents you from holding the camera to eye level then I'm not sure why you want to go the extra bucks for 'live view'. The field of view you get through the viewfinder is far superior for focussing and gives you true colour representation. The LCDs screens don't really give you the kind of detail you want to judge exposure settings.

Good luck.
 
I agree with KGD about live view, the camera also doesn't behave as quickly as it should when you are in live view mode, it sometimes seems almost lethargic.
 
Actually I quite disagree about LiveView. I was an opponent for so long until I actually used it and found how useful it was in macro situations. There is a real time histrogram on the 40D, 50D, and D90 which allows you to judge exposure setting. I do think that that LiveView should be turned off for the most part but it is VERY handy to have. When you're using it, it doesn't have to act quickly. If you need the camera to act quickly and you're using LiveView, that much I'd question...
Also, nowadays the 'kit lens' of Nikon and Canon have fantastic optics, lacking mostly in control of chromatic aberrations.
One other point too, is that while Nikon and Canon bodies are very comparably priced, their lenses, and lens selections, are not. Canon seems to cover a wider range of lenses at a more reasonable (?) price while Nikon is more expensive. Whether or not there is an actual quality difference is debatable. Price the Canon 24-70L vs. the Nikkor 24-70, or the Canon 70-200 2.8 IS vs. the Nikkor 70-200 2.8 VR for instance.
 
Here's are two very reputable site for discussion & review, http://www.dpreview.com/ and http://www.fredmiranda.com/ to help you with your decision.

I'm in the Nikon camp but Canon makes a great product too. I thought long and hard about which direction to go but in the end picked Nikon because I felt that they gave me more "pro" features (weather sealing, full frame viewfinder, superior flash system) for the money.

Note that your real money is in the glass. Your lenses may last for your lifetime, the camera body will get replaced much more frequently.

My current setup that I keep in a Kata DC443 camera bag:
  • Nikon D300
  • AF-S Nikkor 18-200 1:3.5-5.6 G ED for a general walk-around jack of all trades lens
  • AF-S Micro Nikkor 105mm 1:2.8 G ED for amazing and tack sharp close ups
  • AF Nikkor 50mm 1:1.8D for low light and a steal at $100
  • SB900 Speedlight
  • SanDisk Extreme III 4GB cards (1 in camera, 2 in small hardcase)
  • Nikon MC-30 cable release
I also picked up a nice light tripod, Manfrotto 190CX3 and mounted a Manfrotto 486RC2 Ballhead on top.

I couldn't be happier with my setup and it will cover everything I currently need. When my D300 gives up the ghost I'll be moving to a full-frame sensor but that will be at least 5 years from now. In the meantime I'm buying "full-frame" lenses; they are more expensive and heavier, but I eventually want to play in that game so I'm buying the right glass now.

What's next on the lens list? The nice 24-70, then the 70-200, then the 14-24 but they will have to wait until this recession is over. I also need studio lights. :p Did I mention that this can be an expensive hobby?

I bought everything at B&H Photo and Calumet. I recommend both without reservation.
 
Oh, and +1 on BH photo, they are a fantastic and reliable place to do business, and usually have excellent prices.

+1 on this as well. And the Sigma lens I got from there seems to be a quality lens as well. Of course, My CamFu is retard-style.
 
Balislinger,

In addition to dpreview.com, another good digital photo site is luminous-landscape.com.

I have the Canon 40D and it's excellent for the price. The LCD isn't as detailed or clear as some of the newer, more expensive Canon and Nikon models, but I don't rely on it much (preferring to look through the viewfinder).

Can't go wrong with the latest from either Canon or Nikon. Both offer excellent products. Nikon has very rugged camera bodies and has made some real strides in recent years. Canon has been strong for years and has more fast prime lenses (I know you're interested in zooms).

I'll leave the question of a macro lens to the photographers among us (e.g., Ken Lunde), but I'm not sure you really need a macro for photographing knives and similarly sized objects, unless you want to zoom in on handle details, for example.

John

John
 
There are a few things that I recommend:

1) A good lens, such as a dedicated macro lens. When I take serious knife photos, I prefer to use my Nikkor 60mm Micro lens. This lens has been with me for over six years, and has transcended four bodies (D100, D200, D80, and D300). I cannot say enough good things about this lens. I paid about $400 for it.

2) Good lighting. Photography is all about capturing light, and if your lighting sucks, so will you photos, no matter how good your equipment is. Technique can overcome poor lighting to some degree. I use a Lowel "TO GO 98" Tungsten Light Kit (#GO98Z), which has 1750 total watts, and includes two Omni lights (that I use on the side) and one Tota light (that I use overhead through the use of an umbrella reflector that diffuses it).

3) Instant feedback from the camera. The read LCD with histograms help to some degree, but I prefer to use Nikon Camera Control Pro 2, which is an application that interacts with the camera. The photos are taken by clicking a button in the application, and the image is transferred directly to the computer for immediate viewing, and bypasses the camera's memory card. I know in an instant whether I need to retake the photo. Nikon includes a fully-function thirty-day trial version with their digital SLRs. The application costs just under $100, if memory serves. I like this better than LiveView, though LiveView works with this technique.

4) Use an ExpoDisc to set the white balance. Getting the white balance correct is rather critical, and one of these helps a lot.

5) Shoot in RAW, not JPEG. In some cases, JPEGs may look better, but if you need to correct some aspects of the image, such as white balance, it is trivial when using RAW, but can become an impossible task in JPEG.

6) A good post-processing application. There are lots of good choices out there. I happen to use Lightroom.

You'll notice that I didn't mention any specific camera, mainly because most modern digital SLRs will work fine for the purpose you described. The four points above are likely to result in better photos, as opposed to the choice of camera.
 
With regard to macro lenses, there is much more to macro lenses that merely the ability to focus at close distances. For me, they allow smaller apertures. Typical lenses stop down to only f/22, which provides enough depth-of-field for most uses, but macro lenses can stop down further, which can gain more depth-of-field. They also provide correct perspective, meaning that objects that have straight lines look straight, not slightly curved.

Also, when the minimum focusing distance is advertised, it is measured from the focal plane (where the CCD is located, behind the lens and inside the body), not from the front of the lens.
 
Thanks alot guys, this really helps. For you Canon guys, which Canon lenses do you recommend for the 40D? Particularly in the approximately 17-55mm zoom you guys recommended as being a good range. I notice the 40D is sold with a variety of lenses, and many other lenses are available for it. Hard to sort through them when you don't know what to look for.

And what do you think of the two lenses below?

Canon 28-135mm f3.5-5.6 IS Image Stabilized lens

Sigma 70-300 APO DG telephoto/Macro autofocus lens with sun shade.

Thanks! -Jason, I can help you with lighting set-up and all that stuff. I'll post here in a bit. I'm not even close to the kind of set-up Lunde is talking about, but I do pretty well for a consumer-level set-up that's not too pricey.
 
well.. what Ken said!

could not put it better myself!
and it is all about light! i got a D80 and it is a great camera for it's price (which as dropped due to the release of the D90)

and it is worth it to get an expensive lens, because with the quality that the cameras have today, it is all about how the image is distorted in the lens that matters in the end.
 
I have a Canon 50mm prime macro, but have found the distance it needs to be used at to frame an entire knife too far from my shooting table to be convenient. Don't know how others get around this, especially at 60mm or higher, maybe by using a large tripod and a step-stool, but I'm working in a pretty small room, so it's hard to set the tripod far from the table, and then the angle of the shot is more from the side than I would like. I suppose one could gain that distance vertically, but that again would require using a step-stool, which is annoying, and I would need to figure out a different way to diffuse the top light than my current set-up. For you macro fans, is there a practical way to use these prime lenses, considering the distance they require from the subject in order to fram an entire knife?
 
Man...what I need to know is how to take better photos. If anyone out there has any info on building a cheap light box, or creating a good light environment for close-ups, please let me know.

My wife has a Rebel XT with a macro, and that damned camera outsmarts both of us.

I'm sure Ken Lunde will be along sometime to share his insights and advice with both of us. If anyone else can help, please do.

Thanks.

OK, Jason, here are my tips. You can buy a cheap light tent/box on eBay or maybe Amazon (haven't checked Amazon) for about $50 or less. Get one bigger than you think you need, and taller. Bigger lets you do group shots, and taller lets you position the camera over the subject while still diffusing the top light through the tent material.

Place the tent/box on a low table in a room that has space around the table.

Buy three light stands from b&h. Sometimes their used equip are good deals. You'll also need bulb sockets and lamp heads that fit the screw size of your stands. For one of those stands, get a boom kit with counterweight and screw-on end, so you can attach the top light and hover it over your tent.

For light bulbs, go the Home Depot and buy their large size 100 watt daylight spectrum compact fluorescents. Read the find print, you want the Kelvin temperature of the bulb to be around 5500 K or higher.

You might want a power strip to plug the lights into.

Set it all up so you have light coming from either side, and from the top. Use a large tile with something under it to tilt the tile toward the camera for better angles. Then lay whatever fabric or background you want to use over the tile.

Use the custom white balance setting on your Canon. Read the manual to learn how to set it, once your lighting is set up. Use a tripod. Use the timer feature so the picture happens after you let go of the shutter button. 2-10 seconds is fine. Disable the flash on your camera. For shots where the knife is at an angle, you'll need to use custom aperture mode to bump to f-stop up to at least 8. For straight on shots, you can just use auto mode.

Auto focus is fine.

I have found that shooting in RAW mode produces better detail, but for most general shots I still shoot in jpeg. For special shots I shoot in RAW.

Get yourself a good basic photo editing software. I like Photoshop Elements. It's much cheaper than the full Photoshop suite, and does everything you need and more.

Learning how to use Photoshop takes time, but you can start with basics, like remove color cast, adjusting levels, and unsharp mask.

Of course you can set something up for alot less money, like building the cheap light box someone linked to, and a couple halogen work lights on the sides. I used to have a cheaper set-up, but after a while I wanted more room and flexibility than that set-up would allow. Halogen lighting is OK, but not as good as full daylight spectrum for revealing detail.

Another easier and simpler turn-key option, if you don't want to go through the hassle of ordering separate parts from b&h, is to find a light box kit that includes the lights, stands, etc. These can be a good starter solution, but like I said, they usually don't perform as well, or offer as much flexibility as a set-up you build yourself.

Just to reiterate what has been said before in this thread by others. The most important factore in good shots is your lighting. 3-point lighting (sides and top) is better than 2-point (just 2 lights on the sides) lighting, but 2-point will do fine in a pinch. The next priority is a good lens. Glass and optics make more of a difference than the camera itself. Don't rule out point & shoots, though. I know some Canon point & shoots that take better knife shots than some SLRs. That may have something to do with the built in macro-mode of some point & shoots, vs. the SLR not having a great lens or right kind of lens.

Third is your skill in manipulating custom settings like aperture and composition, as well as your proficiency with a photo editor.

Fourth is the camera itself.

I have very gradually upgraded my knife shooting technique over the last 7 years. In fact, there's a section of my pbase/balisong site that showcases the development of my photography, and it's pretty funny to see. I think it's under my personal gallery under misc.

What I'm going for next is sharper shots, and better optics. My pictures have been frustratingly soft, so I want a camera that will focus better and a sharp lens to go along with it. From that lens I also want better optics than what I currently have.

Hope all that helps! Maybe one day I'll start upgrading to some of the stuff Ken is talking about.
 
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