Help me decide...CRK one piece or Busse?

Dave,

I may have a somewhat more realistic solution. I live in Columbus. Send me an e-mail. I could meet you in Marysville and bring some samples.

Regretfully, I don't have any of the "E" handled models, but have some others for you to get an idea how a Busse handles, including a Satin Jack. (hopefully by the end of the week I'll have a couple new toys too).

Let me know.

Mike
 
If you think your going to be doing a lot of chopping the Busse, might be the better knife, but 7.5 inches is still a little short for a good chopper. But the Busse would probably do better at that.
If your interested in cutting things, especially more delicate fine cutting, the edge of the Reeves is really quite acute. The Reeve is not a pry bar, but is quite strong. The spine on the Reeve is also quite thick and I doubt you will break it by any reasonable prying either. Its lighter for sure, but that may not be a big factor for you. Its coating is quite good and I never heard of any users complaining about rusting. If you think you can leave a blade wet all night or over a weekend, your going to get flecks of rust on most any uncoated areas of any knife. Buzz Bait had a review of his Natural Outlaw on here, and the reasons he listed are the exact reasons I will not buy a Busse unless I wanted a 9+ inch chopper,
a niche being filled by another knife now. Smaller knives suit me better, and in the 7 inch catagorey and below its an easy choice to go with the Reeve for me. But I am not you, and I am not saying there is anything wrong with a Busse. Just that the same things that make them good for some jobs, like steel thickness, edge thickness, weight, make them less suitable for small jobs. Now they do have some models other than their standard line that may be better suited to other tasks. Just my 2 cents worth, nothing more. Just remember, Reeve is selling a lot of his one piece line to somebody (s) out there in knife land, regardless of how much hype about them is on here.
 
Originally posted by Dave Costin

As for going to the Busse forums I have not really been there yet. I'm affraid you guys will get me in there and slam the door shut!:D

Dave,
LOL :D:D

I promise if you come over to visit us, we'll let you leave again ;):D:D

I have to say, I don't agree that a Busse can't be used for detailed work. Sure you aren't going to fillet a fish with one but it isn't a sharp rock either (or prybar for that matter) :D:D
These are tough knives but not only are they tough they are also very functional for many tasks.
 
Eric, you cut up some vegetables or meat with a NO or Steelheart, and I will use a project 1 or Shadow IV, and I bet I have an easier time. That's all I was getting at. Same for making a fuzz stick or any other detail work. Read Buzzbaits review of the NO he got. I am only commenting on the NO, Steelheart and BM, not any other knives in the line. CRK's are not perfect for slicing either, as they do have thick spines. But they do tend to be better at it. Again IMHO only. My opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it.
 
I guess I better clarify my words a bit. My first Busse was a Natural Outlaw. The blade was 1/4" thick at the spine, and thickly ground through the entire blade. I found the thickness of the grind to impair fine cutting work. My Natural Outlaw was definitely designed more for chopping than for slicing. While I’m sure it could have done some limited slicing, it could never have done it as well as I wanted. The wish for more slicing and less chopping ability was a personal decision. The Natural Outlaw was very well made, but did not fit into my own idea of a general-purpose camp knife. There is no doubt that others, who do more chopping than I do, would consider the Natural Outlaw to be an excellent camp knife. Different people have different needs.

With all of this said, I would not blame the 1/4” Infi stock on the Natural Outlaw’s more limited slicing ability. I believe that a 1/4” thick blade can be made to slice well if the grind is thin enough. It won’t slice quite as well as a similarly made blade of 3/16” stock, but can slice very well. Take my Marbles Fieldcraft for example. My Fieldcraft has a spine thickness greater than my Satin Jack, and only a little bit thinner than the Natural Outlaw. The Fieldcraft is simply extraordinary at fine cutting chores. While the spine is very thick, the full convex grind is very thin. I would definitely say that the primary grind of a knife has much greater influence over its cutting abilities than the thickness of the blade.

I do think that Busse has a great lineup of knives. They are very well made and some are quite versatile. I wish that there were a greater variety of smaller and thinner ground knives in the Busse lineup, but that’s just my opinion. I have to remember that the full name of the company is Busse Combat, and that they do contract with the government. My knife needs may vary greatly from what the military desires. I’m just glad that I found the Busse Satin Jack. It’s a sensational knife. It slices well and has good limited chopping ability. It will do very well for my outdoor uses.
 
Tightwad, actually I do want to "use" whatever knife I decide to get. I have a BK&T Brute that is always strapped to my 4 wheeler. I use the heck out of it but it's limited to the 4 wheeler because of the way I have it mounted. I can't easily get the sheath off.

Mike (thatmguy), That sounds great. I will e-mail you. The wife and I come to Columbus now and then too. She's been wanting to go to Tuttle-Crossing so maybe that would work too. Save you some driving. Do you have any CRK's?

Mike 990 and Buzzbait, Thanks so much for your input. Maybe what I really need (or want) is a Natural Outlaw in 3/16". That might be the "perfect" knife for me. I think I am going to really like the large E handle on the Busse's.

Eric, Promises, promises.:rolleyes: J/K! That's funny. From the looks of things and the way I'm leaning I'll probably be there. Guess I should soon come over and say hi right?:D
 
Originally posted by Dave Costin


Maybe what I really need (or want) is a Natural Outlaw in 3/16". That might be the "perfect" knife for me. I think I am going to really like the large E handle on the Busse's.

Busse Combat actually made this knife last summer, its called the Zero Tolerance Natural Outlaw(ZTNO), Satin finished 3/16" INFI. They are a little more expensive than the regular line and you will have to find one on the secondary market but they do exist.

Eric, Promises, promises.:rolleyes: J/K! That's funny. From the looks of things and the way I'm leaning I'll probably be there. Guess I should soon come over and say hi right?:D

I'll await your arrival ;):D
 
Hwo about the Becker CU/7 or the Becker Campanion. I know, I know - but why not consider them anyways.
 
Cliff has put me up to argue the case for Chris Reeve Knives. Thanks.

Its no secret that I like CR fixed knives because I've used them extensively. I also like Busse knives though I've only really handled them. They are very different to each other, having quite different handling qualities. I also suspect you would operate them slightly differently in the field due to their different geometries.

CRK fixed blades are tough. You would have to make an abnormally serious determined effort to break one. The edge holds and can be kept keen so they do cut well to the point where you don't have to wish you were using a far smaller thinner blade. It means your meal doesn't have to be hacked up. They will do all the chopping required for survival tasks, like cutting poles and stakes. Turf cutting and digging a shallow scrape isn't much effort as the flat top to the handle helps as you can push down on it. The spear point is well strong and is good for a whole lot of jobs including getting in for some crow bar work. I like the round handle as it lends itself to greater dexterity when tackling a tricky job. Infact I would go so fare as to say a round handle is a real asset and gives nothing away to flat sided ones on these sized knives. There is also no handle scales to break or loose. The tines are enough without getting in the way. The chequered grip holds firm especially when your hands are a little hardened, slimey and gritty, from living out. You could even make a thrusting spear by just forcing a shaft on (not for throwing). Even the Projects as an overall package don't weigh that much; you won't be tempted to leave them back at base. I could go on and on about the merrits of them because they are outstanding. Finally, the hollow handle is a by-product of the one piece design, and though useful to carry the odd item it is not the reason to buy one.


Busse: if Ciff Stamp says inf steel is tougher then who an I to argue. I really want a Battle Mistress because the whole concept is, in my book, right and I don't have this sized knife in my inventory. I want it tough as heck for chopping; which the BM does. I don't want it for little dainty jobs, I just want to get angry with it. My problem is with the smaller knives in the Busse range. They are all very dence, heavy, which is fine for chopping but not for other stuff. If one analised what one actually uses a knife for then its obvious there isn't a lot of chopping to be done. A survival, military, knife needs to be tough, but not to the detriment of flexability. Well not on the medium sized knives. These should cut well and work in the hand. The handles seem to me deep and slim which I don't like. Deep is one problem which wouldn't be so bad if they were fatter. As is, I feel that they might induce cramp, though haven't used them to know for sure. I have smallish hands and the combination of a dence thick blade with the handle feels horrible to me. I know other people who would find this more brutish set up more to their liking. I just cannot get to grips, literally, with it. 3/16 stock is an improvement but with the grind just not enough for me. Another thing is that they have so much steel that the weight feels high to the extent that I wouldn't be overly enthralled to carry one long distance when such weight isn't providing much over a lighter blade. When you are knackered you become clumsy and control is everything and a chunky blade doesn't help. I'm looking forward to when Jerry brings out some more proportioned tapered knives and marketes them as light weight solutions for those who don't require such heavily built blades.

Both CR and Busse stables produce the very best in blade manufacture. Their steel control and heat treatment is second to none. The designs are different, and its good thing that they are. Life would be so boring if everything was the same, for one we wouldn't have Guiness. There are other outstanding knives out there, so don't limit yourself to just these two. It all really comes down to what feels good for you and what you want to do with it.
 
I've been wanting a larger outdoor style knife for a while now and the top contenders were a Project one in clip point palin blade and a Busse Steel Heart. Like you I came here a while ago looking for some info on upgrading my EDC (Cold Steel Small tanto half serrated Voyager). I too ended up with a small Sebbie and was carrying it just today and I love it. I should mention that I work on the wholesale side of my industry and travel the southwest visiting hifi stores. This allows me to visit the occasional knife store in three states as well so I can usually find a place to see what I'm looking for and fondle it. I was not able to fall in love with the finish on the Busse knives I've seen, and I had reservations about the handle shape and texture on the CRK so I haven't bought either (yet). I have no doubt that either knive is likley to be as strong as I'd ever need and hold a pretty good edge.

I've also gone to a couple shows lately and this past weekend I found the knife I was looking for. It's a Lile Combat. It has a 7" clip point blade of D2 with good sized swedges on the blade spine, a full stainless guard and black linen micarta slabs with a full tapered tang. The handle shape is very comfortable in both saber grip and reversed grip. The blade is 3/16 and hollow ground so will likely not chop as well as a Busse nor take the prybar abuse the Busse will, but it's still a tough blade. The blade profile is more like a Project One but the shape of the handle seems much more comfortable to me. The balance of this knife is unbelievable. It just floats in my hand. I'm 5'11" and about 260 and the handle fits me just right. I'd say I have medium large hands.

Lile also makes a knife called the Grey Ghost that is a 6.5" clip point 1/4" thick blade with a finger grooved Micarta handle. The Grey Ghost is closer to the $300.00 mark than the Combat ($400.00 range) and in my humble opinion seemed to be sort of indestructible. The Grey Ghost was much heavier to me than the Combat and seemed to be in the Busse class as far as overall strength, but you'd have to go a long way to really damage any of the knives I've mentioned here. The Ghost has a cool bead blast finish over the blade and the handle making is non-slip and anti-reflective. Very cool.

I'd be curious to see Cliff Stamp work out a Lile Grey Ghost and see how it stands up. It seemed like the kind of knife you'd want to carry if you had to attack a tank by hand.

Good luck with whatever you get. As always, just my opinion.

jmx
 
jmxcpter, I'm really pleased you found the knife not the knife finding you. Confidence because it feels right makes everything so much easier and work that much more a pleasure.

One observation I missed is that Busse knives finish are lrts say "business like" unlike the CR which are clean and smart. I don't think the tree your chopping cares but its a point.

You guys don't know how lucky you are. In Europe there are few knife shows, and selections in the local gunshops is very limited. The few specialise cutlery shops are far apart. A couple in France I regularly visit. Otherwise there there is just the odd one in each country if you know where to find them. Its hard work.
 
Well I must say, as usual you guys have all been great! I really appreciate all of your input. Thank you.

I have come to a conclusion, at least a partial one.:) I found a CRK (used) Shadow IV that has a pancake style sheath (which I'm sure I will like) for a good price. I am going to get that for now and wait until the next release of Busse's. This way I can use the CRK for finer slicing ect and get a Busse (which I can carry in or on a pack) for heavier work and chores around my home. I live in the country and have alot of trees that can always use alittle pruning.:)

I think this combination will work great for what I need. Hey at the worst I can always sell the CRK if I don't like it but as much as I have studied the pictures I think I will. Seems like a good size to carry alot and use for smaller lighter work.

I WILL have a Busse within the next 2 months though, rest assured.

Again thanks to all.

Dave
 
Great choice! I love the looks of those Reeve pancake style sheaths. You couldn't have gone wrong with either manufacturer's knives. Let us all know how you like the Shadow IV.
 
Dave, sorry, no CRK now.

Tuttle is only 5 minutes away. Let me know if you want to see some INFI. I've got a couple pounds or so... :D

Drop me a line to arrange.

Mike
 
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