Help me decide: TSPROF K03, Hapstone R2, or Kazak Pro?

[sadmin]

+1 - as a reader and shopping for the same products, 777 Edge 's input has been invaluable. really appreciated reading the back and forth!

 

[777 Edge]

Thanks, I can’t tell you how helpful you have been.

My greatest pleasure.

I ask about longevity because I make custom knives, so although I won’t be sharpening at the volume of a sharpening service, I will be sharpening a good bit of blades on it. I also offer free sharpening for life on customer blades so just wanted to make sure the stones have good longevity.

They have a hard bond and last a very long time. Longevity should not be a problem at all. The only ones you'll possibly ever even dish out a bit are the coarse ones, and only if you do a lot of reprofiling with them. The finer ones will likely never wear out at all - because after your bevels are set you'll only need a handful of strokes to refine the edge as you go up in grits. The diamonds refine the edge and scratch pattern very quickly after initial bevel setting.

What you will have to do every once in a blue moon, is just use a conditioning stone like the "King Nagura 8000" (Amazon for about 10 bucks) on them to refresh their surface a bit.

 

[777 Edge]

... I make custom knives, so although I won’t be sharpening at the volume of a sharpening service, I will be sharpening a good bit of blades on it. I also offer free sharpening for life on customer blades..

I have to say, it really puts a smile on my face to hear a knife maker realize the value of a whetstone sharpened edge on a guided system.

Most knife makers will just finalize the edge on a their dry grinder with a belt, not realizing that they are absolutely ruining the heat treat in a fraction of a second on the last few microns of the edge (the most important part). It then takes a good sharpener hours of whetstone sharpening to finally get rid of that tiny bit of ruined steel.

Too often the perfect heat treat and careful grinding is finished off with a ruined microscopic edge, with the maker none the wiser.

C cnhensel , You're obviously a man who knows his craft and I'm sure you're great at it.

 

[cnhensel]

I have to say, it really puts a smile on my face to hear a knife maker realize the value of a whetstone sharpened edge on a guided system.

Most knife makers will just finalize the edge on a their dry grinder with a belt, not realizing that they are absolutely ruining the heat treat in a fraction of a second on the last few microns of the edge (the most important part). It then takes a good sharpener hours of whetstone sharpening to finally get rid of that tiny bit of ruined steel.

Too often the perfect heat treat and careful grinding is finished off with a ruined microscopic edge, with the maker none the wiser.

C cnhensel , You're obviously a man who knows his craft and I'm sure you're great at it.

Much appreciated! And you are correct regarding the belt sharpening. And although I have a VFD connected and my belt speed is at a crawl, there really is no way to see if the temper is affected at the microscopic level. Plus I want to get more precise with edge geometry, and freehand will only get you so far.

In terms of wet/dry, are both diamond and CBN same in that regard. I remember hearing CBN can be run dry which creates a cleaner work environment. Not sure though…?

 

[777 Edge]

In terms of wet/dry, are both diamond and CBN same in that regard. I remember hearing CBN can be run dry which creates a cleaner work environment. Not sure though…?

Some say dry is ok, but I use all my Poltava and Venev stones with a little bit of soapy water for lubrication - just a few drops of liquid dish soap mixed with water in a little bottle. They seem to load up with metal swarf faster and need more regular surface cleaning & conditioning when used dry.

There is no need to drench them in lubrication so it won't cause much of a mess at all. Just enough to keep the top surface from running dry. I "draw" a line of soapy water along the top of the stone and spread it out evenly with my finger when I feel it drying out before and during sharpening.

FYI, I also use my diamond & CBN plated stones with a bit of soapy water as lubrication. Diamond plated & CBN plated stones are typically advertised that they can be used dry but I've found they tend to have a much longer life when used with a bit of lubrication.

Talking about wet vs dry, I also use a clean section of a small moist towel to carefully wipe the swarf off of my blades between stones and after sharpening. I don't use dry paper towels because the swarf can easily scratch your edge and blade with dry paper towels.

 

[Dawgmary]

I got hold of Gritomatic and asked about this, they've had some issues with their contact us form and hours of operation being updated on their site so contacting them should be sorted out now....but you may be out of luck. I have a suspicion that C cnhensel managed to snag the only one they had.

I am glad they have things worked out. I really wanted to buy from them, I just got frustrated and moved on.

 

[cnhensel]

Some say dry is ok, but I use all my Poltava and Venev stones with a little bit of soapy water for lubrication - just a few drops of liquid dish soap mixed with water in a little bottle. They seem to load up with metal swarf faster and need more regular surface cleaning & conditioning when used dry.

There is no need to drench them in lubrication so it won't cause much of a mess at all. Just enough to keep the top surface from running dry. I "draw" a line of soapy water along the top of the stone and spread it out evenly with my finger when I feel it drying out before and during sharpening.

FYI, I also use my diamond & CBN plated stones with a bit of soapy water as lubrication. Diamond plated & CBN plated stones are typically advertised that they can be used dry but I've found they tend to have a much longer life when used with a bit of lubrication.

Talking about wet vs dry, I also use a clean section of a small moist towel to carefully wipe the swarf off of my blades between stones and after sharpening. I don't use dry paper towels because the swarf can easily scratch your edge and blade with dry paper towels.

This all makes perfect sense. I use lubricant when hand rubbing blades, cuts better and prevents abrasives from loading, but gets very messy, and for some reason was what I was picturing in my head for whetstone sharpening. Good to know they don’t have to be drenched and will stay relatively clean! It will allow me to have the guided sharpening setup in my home office instead of out in the chilly workshop (Minnesota).

 

[777 Edge]

It will allow me to have the guided sharpening setup in my home office instead of out in the chilly workshop (Minnesota).

Oh, absolutely. I do all of my sharpening in my home office or sometimes on my dining room table. The only mess left is a metal and swarf soiled moist cotton cloth when I'm done.

 

[777 Edge]

I found this thread helpful in deciding which machine to buy. Thanks specifically to 777 Edge for all of the insight. I ended up with the KakBritva Luch. I absolutely love it. The only downside was the user manual was in Cyrillic. I was able to translate it and I’ll attach it here for anyone who ends up getting one.

KakBritva Luch user manual (English):

https://imgur.com/a/fg4B5di

I wanted to mention something regarding the swivel mechanism of the KakBritva Luch. The manual states they have a carbide loaded grease to prevent "spontaneous rotation". I never liked the idea of hard carbide particles in-between the metal plates so that was the very first thing I completely cleaned off and removed from the insides of my swivel. I replaced it with regular lithium grease and it works perfectly fine without any "spontaneous rotation" after I tighten it up.

The only place where that has use in my opinion is in something like a valve grinding compound where metal needs to be removed....not something I want for the insides of my KakBritva Luch.

 

[cnhensel]

I wanted to mention something regarding the swivel mechanism of the KakBritva Luch. The manual states they have a carbide loaded grease to prevent "spontaneous rotation". I never liked the idea of hard carbide particles in-between the metal plates so that was the very first thing I completely cleaned off and removed from the insides of my swivel. I replaced it with regular lithium grease and it works perfectly fine without any "spontaneous rotation" after I tighten it up.

The only place where that has use in my opinion is in something like a valve grinding compound where metal needs to be removed....not something I want for the insides of my KakBritva Luch.

I was wondering about that. In theory it makes sense, however it doesn’t seem like enough pressure would be put on the swivel mechanism to get it to move under normal sharpening. I left it on for now and may remove it in the future. That crackling sound when tightening is like nails on a chalkboard!

 

[777 Edge]

That crackling sound when tightening is like nails on a chalkboard!

Hearing that sound once only was enough for me to decide to clean it off.

 

[cnhensel]

Hearing that sound once only was enough for me to decide to clean it off.

Hahaha!

Side note, I’m working on putting together an LED light setup for the Luch. It will attach via magnet at the base, so could theoretically work on other machines too. It started because I really liked how the Kazak v1.2 light system uses the quick connect magnets/sleeves which allow you to remove the light modules and stick them other places or remove them for charging. So I contacted Kazak about purchasing those parts and they graciously added them to their website! These are going to be so handy for not just sharpening rigs, but all around my workshop. I ordered several. I have a direct link to them for anyone interested.

 

[cnhensel]

Here is a pic:
Kazak light magnet + sleeve

 

[777 Edge]

Side note, I’m working on putting together an LED light setup for the Luch. It will attach via magnet at the base, so could theoretically work on other machines too. It started because I really liked how the Kazak v1.2 light system uses the quick connect magnets/sleeves which allow you to remove the light modules and stick them other places or remove them for charging. So I contacted Kazak about purchasing those parts and they graciously added them to their website! These are going to be so handy for not just sharpening rigs, but all around my workshop. I ordered several. I have a direct link to them for anyone interested.

Having a light rig is incredibly useful, I agree. I've designed quite a number of articulated arms with attachments and also some with magnetic mounts for Gritomatic. I assume they will be releasing them this year sometime.

 

[barkingspider2007]

I have to say, it really puts a smile on my face to hear a knife maker realize the value of a whetstone sharpened edge on a guided system.

Most knife makers will just finalize the edge on a their dry grinder with a belt, not realizing that they are absolutely ruining the heat treat in a fraction of a second on the last few microns of the edge (the most important part). It then takes a good sharpener hours of whetstone sharpening to finally get rid of that tiny bit of ruined steel.

Too often the perfect heat treat and careful grinding is finished off with a ruined microscopic edge, with the maker none the wiser.

C cnhensel , You're obviously a man who knows his craft and I'm sure you're great at it.

I agree with you. Most knives need 3 sharpening s to remove the "factory damaged" edge.
When I gift a knife to a non-sharpener removal of the dead metal is my first priority.
Most collectors of knives just like to open and close the knife and perhaps do a paper cut test.
It is surprising to me that using the blade as an EDC cutting tool is not really popular.
Trying out new steel and seeing how it holds up is a lot of fun.
Thanks for commenting...