Help me fix defective grind on RAT5

Joined
Mar 25, 2002
Messages
14
Hey all,

Bought an Ontario RAT 5 and am quite disappointed. From the factory, the grind is visibly askew and the knife is so dull it won't even slice paper.

Been thinking it over and I figure the only way to fix it is to knock down the bevels and start over. Need your input as to how to do this ... I'm not the greatest sharpener in the world.

I figure on using my Gatco sharpening set to knock the primary bevel to 11 degrees and then do the secondary at 22 degrees. Does that sound right? I wish I had some DMT stones as I worked on the edge for an hour last week and still can't get it anywhere near right.

As to sending it back, I can't do that as I'm going to be needing this knife for a class next week. Otherwise I would have sent it back in disgust.

Thanks for your help,

Justin
 
I had the same problem with a TAK-1 in D2. It look me a long time with diamond stones to fix it. Now it's great; at least you only have 1095 to work through.
 
Hey all,

Bought an Ontario RAT 5 and am quite disappointed. From the factory, the grind is visibly askew and the knife is so dull it won't even slice paper.

Been thinking it over and I figure the only way to fix it is to knock down the bevels and start over. Need your input as to how to do this ... I'm not the greatest sharpener in the world.

I figure on using my Gatco sharpening set to knock the primary bevel to 11 degrees and then do the secondary at 22 degrees. Does that sound right? I wish I had some DMT stones as I worked on the edge for an hour last week and still can't get it anywhere near right.

As to sending it back, I can't do that as I'm going to be needing this knife for a class next week. Otherwise I would have sent it back in disgust.

Thanks for your help,

Justin

You don't need DMT stones to rebevel your RAT-5. Take a trip to your local hardware store/Home Depot/Lowes and pick up a two-sided benchstone. These shouldn't run you more than $15, I managed to pick up a Norton stone for just $5 from HD.

The coarse side should be more than enough to put the desired angles on your RAT. Once you have your angles set, finish up on the Gatco.

Good luck and be patient.
 
I figure on using my Gatco sharpening set to knock the primary bevel to 11 degrees and then do the secondary at 22 degrees. Does that sound right?

That low of a primary bevel would work well for cutting but I would take care about any type of impact. It is also going to be a large change from the existing bevel so it will require some time, especially if the edge is thick. I would try to see if you can file the edge, if this is possible it will only take a few minutes to reset it. Other wise buy a very large and very coarse hone and then just finish on the Gatco. If you can not buy a decent large hone, then buy an 80 grit sanding belt for a 1" belt sander and mount it on a strip of hardwood and use it like a file.

-Cliff
 
I think you should let us replace the knife for you. You paid good money for the RAT-5 and shouldn't have to spend a lot of time re-doing the edge. I'll admit that Ontario does not have the best symmetry in the world with their hand edging process but anything this far out needs replacing. Contact Mike Perrin mike@ontariorat.com and he'll take care of this for you, and we'll even reimburse your shipping costs.

Regards,

Jeff Randall
 
I think you should let us replace the knife for you. You paid good money for the RAT-5 and shouldn't have to spend a lot of time re-doing the edge. I'll admit that Ontario does not have the best symmetry in the world with their hand edging process but anything this far out needs replacing. Contact Mike Perrin mike@ontariorat.com and he'll take care of this for you, and we'll even reimburse your shipping costs.

Regards,

Jeff Randall

How's that for customer service! :thumbup:
 
Justin,
If you will email your address to me at mike@ontariorat.com I will have them send you a new knife quickly in time for your class. They will of course inspect it first to insure you receive a knife with a decent grind this time. I apologize for this inconvenience. Mike
 
I think you should let us replace the knife for you. You paid good money for the RAT-5 and shouldn't have to spend a lot of time re-doing the edge. I'll admit that Ontario does not have the best symmetry in the world with their hand edging process but anything this far out needs replacing. Contact Mike Perrin mike@ontariorat.com and he'll take care of this for you, and we'll even reimburse your shipping costs.

Regards,

Jeff Randall
Now that's service:thumbup:
 
Thanks for all the replies ... :)

Ludwig, I wish I had enough skill to use a regular stone to knock down the bevels. I just don't. Last night I shelled out $90 (including express shipping) get a diamond Lansky set so I'm hoping that the Lansky will let me get the bevels right.

Cliff, point taken on the 11 degree. Maybe I can do a 15 primary and then a 22 degree secondary.

Jeff and Mike - I really appreciate your offers but there isn't enough time. I will be headed out into the woods for a week-long class and have to be ready to go this weekend. I realize it is only Tuesday and I am not shipping out until this weekend but it is my fault that I'm in this predicament; I have to use an offsite receiving service for packages (and they are only open certain times/days of the week) so it's not possible timing-wise. I'm not knocking your products or your customer service ... indeed you have gone above and beyond the call of duty with your kind offers. I have numerous other (non-RAT) knives that came from the factory in similar condition so I'm certainly not trying to single you out. Indeed I read some reports online here about similar issues with Ontario RAT knives prior to purchasing the RAT5 -- and yet I still purchased it anyway because I believe you guys make a solid product for the money. With the diamond Lansky I am hopeful I can fix the problem and make it right in time for the class. Thanks again.
 
Good luck with the Lansky set. If you sit down and really work the RAT-5 with the diamond hones, it shouldn't take you too long.

Have fun at your class this weekend.
 
There should be no problem re-beveling with the diamond hones. Just remember to start with the coarsest one and get the knife sharp before moving to the next finer grade--and so on.
Personally I think 11 and 22 is a bit too narrow. I'd go for 15 and 20, or even 20 and 25. An 11 degree primary will be pretty fragile for hard work in the woods. (Cliff may disagree!)
Greg
 
I think you should let us replace the knife for you. You paid good money for the RAT-5 and shouldn't have to spend a lot of time re-doing the edge. I'll admit that Ontario does not have the best symmetry in the world with their hand edging process but anything this far out needs replacing. Contact Mike Perrin mike@ontariorat.com and he'll take care of this for you, and we'll even reimburse your shipping costs.

Regards,

Jeff Randall


Wow! That's awesome customer service. I've been debating whether I should get a RAT3 or RAT5 now I'm getting both.
 
i bought RAT knives because of what was said about the Jeff and Mike and their knives on BF. the high praise of their customer service does not do them justice. they don't just talk it, they walk it. i've got a RAT-3, RAT-7, TAK-1, two RTAK II's, and a piggy bank filling for a RAT-5. thanks, guys!:)

JT, i'd like to hear how the knife & course goes.
 
An 11 degree primary will be pretty fragile for hard work in the woods.

It depends on the wood and the skill which is why I noted care with impacts. My blade are ran than low on the primary edge edge, a little more acute usually, but I have a significant secondary bevel at about 12-14 degrees. If the steel is tough and hard this should be a practical wood cutting profile. But yes, it will depend on the person and what they cut.

-Cliff
 
I bought a RAT7 in D2 couple of weeks ago. Edge was disappointingly dull.

Phoned the dealer, who was extremely helpful and a believer in customer service.
Shipped the knife back to him, and he sent me a 1095 version instead.

And the 1095 version was nicely sharp out of the box.
It's a real nice knife BTW. Very solid.
 
Although the edges from the factory are not always great, the customer service is excellent and quick. My Rat had similar problems and was fixed in a week. Big thumbs up.
 
I think you should let us replace the knife for you. You paid good money for the RAT-5 and shouldn't have to spend a lot of time re-doing the edge. I'll admit that Ontario does not have the best symmetry in the world with their hand edging process but anything this far out needs replacing. Contact Mike Perrin mike@ontariorat.com and he'll take care of this for you, and we'll even reimburse your shipping costs.

Regards,

Jeff Randall
WOW:thumbup: Class act all the way.
 
After Action Report!

It was a very exhausting week but I learned a lot. Basically our day started at 0630, breakfast at 0700 and then classes started at 0800 ... and went until 2200-2300 at night! We got a few breaks and 30-60 mins for lunch/dinner but basically it was go, go, go! Probably the most exhausting vacation I've had in a while.

Anyhoo, onto the RAT5. I got my Lansky diamond set and took it with me to the class. It took me about 2.0-2.5 hours to get the bevels fixed with the Lansky extra coarse diamond stone. I ended up with a 25 degree secondary bevel and it seemed like it worked well for the class. Final polish with the Lansky fine diamond stone did not result in a razor sharp edge, but a very sharp one in any event!

Once the edge was fixed, the knife performed very well. Here is a list of the things we did with our knives, which were basically used almost every day of the week:

- Making a bowdrill set from a single block of cedar wood. The only "help" came in the form of an axe which was used to split the block of wood into the three other chunks to create the primary components -- fireboard, spindle and handblock. The bow was provided to us so we didn't have to make it.

- Making a fireboard for a hand drill set, again from a block of cedar wood. The hand drill didn't require any work because it was basically cut from a dead dogbane reed.

- Creating a figure-four deadfall from loose branches. My deadfall was a bit beefy than most, being constructed from sticks about 0.5" in diameter.

- De-scaling a grouper fish for dinner ... we were given kitchen knives to make the initial cut for gutting the fish but after that we used our knives for de-scaling. I used the back of the blade so I don't think this was a particularly intense use for the RAT ... but I must say the thumb grooves on the back of the blade helped in the process.

Splitting/batoning the cedar blocks with the RAT5 was easy enough. The cedar blocks were maybe 8-12" thick so it wasn't light work. I am now much more appreciative of the flat spine of the RAT5's blade ... I can't imagine batoning with my Randall #14 would have been an easy task with a sharpened top edge.

Also, bonus points for the choil and the thumb grooves. These allowed very precise cuts for some of the more precision whittling that we had to do. A great example is the notch in the fireboard ... it's important to have a sharp, clean notch free from fuzz on the sides of the notch. I was able to manuever the RAT5 with enough precision to get several clean notches (note: each fireboard had 2+ burn-in points so it's not just one notch per fireboard!).

Probably the only "negative" (in addition to the initial bevel problem) was the pommel. The RAT5 has a pointed pommel, presumably for combat use. I would have preferred a flatter one so I could use it for hammering. Not a big deal; I was able to use the side of the handle for a decent hammer (holding the knife by the handle, of course -- not the blade).

Incidentally, mine was not the only Ontario at the class. Out of 140 students (yours truly included) I also saw a guy with an Ontario TAK.

The vast majority of the students used either the school-brand knives or a more economical fixed blade by Frost Cutlery. One guy had a custom knife from a maker that I did not recognize (Tapp? He said he got it from his base PX). A few Ka-Bars in attendance as well.

Last, the class featured one short session on survival knives, entitled "Knives 101". To condense their recommendation, it was a fixed blade knife, blade 3-5", flat ground, high-carbon steel, single hilt, full tang and with a clip/drop point. The RAT5 fit basically all those requirements and performed well.

So in conclusion I'll say that while the knife wasn't exactly 100% from the factory, a little bit of elbow grease with a diamond stone set was all that was required to get the knife in tip-top shape. I'd certainly buy another Ontario RAT.

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Sheath by Kevin Winter (Alaska).
 
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