Help me, help my wife, get me a Christmas gift

Hawk45

Hawk45

Joined
Jan 28, 2005
Messages
2,154
My lovely wife is asking me for gift ideas for Christmas. I'd love to tell her a variable speed KMG, but I think her budget is much more limited. So I was thinking she could get me a motor or VFD or combo. My plan is to within the next few months order a KMG chassis sans motor and build up as funds allow for parts since the motors and VFDs seem a premium directly from KMG.

I'd like to get a 3HP Phase 3 motor since I can run 220 no problem.

So my question is, which is the right motor and speed to get to get if going to use a VFD.

Then what VFD to match.

If I did my research right, I want a 3PH TEFC 56C at 3450RPM, 230/460V, so one of these:

3HP - http://www.ptjindustrial.com/Leeson_114615_p/114615.htm

Then for the VFD, I'd need a KBAC NEMA 4X.. but get confused b/c there is a 230V and a 460V version and not sure which to get to match the motor.
3HP (230V) - http://www.electricmotorwholesale.com/9528-KBAC-29D/
3HP (460V) - http://www.electricmotorwholesale.com/9530-KBAC-45D/

Thanks guys
John
 
I went the route you are planning and am very happy. Bought a 3ph 3HP Baldor super motor off of Ebay for 215$ shipped. New old stock, its a monster. Its not a 56C either, you don't have to worry so much about the bolt pattern if you're not planning on using the mounting plate from Rob. I just made my own. I believe my motor chassis is a 182 type. This opens up your options and you can save a pretty penny the motor I bought is a discontinued model but was over a grand new. It eats metal like nothing else in my shop.

For the VFD this is the one you want. I bought it from electric wholesale and spoke to KBAC before doing so.

http://www.electricmotorwholesale.com/10001-KBAC-29D/

Buy the stupid on off switch too or you'll be using your breaker until you get one like me :D
 
Hawk45 said:
My lovely wife is asking me for gift ideas for Christmas. I'd love to tell her a variable speed KMG, but I think her budget is much more limited. So I was thinking she could get me a motor or VFD or combo. My plan is to within the next few months order a KMG chassis sans motor and build up as funds allow for parts since the motors and VFDs seem a premium directly from KMG.

I'd like to get a 3HP Phase 3 motor since I can run 220 no problem.

So my question is, which is the right motor and speed to get to get if going to use a VFD.

Then what VFD to match.

If I did my research right, I want a 3PH TEFC 56C at 3450RPM, 230/460V, so one of these:

3HP - http://www.ptjindustrial.com/Leeson_114615_p/114615.htm

Then for the VFD, I'd need a KBAC NEMA 4X.. but get confused b/c there is a 230V and a 460V version and not sure which to get to match the motor.
3HP (230V) - http://www.electricmotorwholesale.com/9528-KBAC-29D/
3HP (460V) - http://www.electricmotorwholesale.com/9530-KBAC-45D/

Thanks guys
John
Click to expand...


3HP - http://www.ptjindustrial.com/Leeson_114615_p/114615.htm Yes, you're not "stuck" to a 56 frame motor but it means you can buy off the shelf wheels and pulleys

Then for the VFD, I'd need a KBAC NEMA 4X.. but get confused b/c there is a 230V and a 460V version and not sure which to get to match the motor.
3HP (230V) - http://www.electricmotorwholesale.com/9528-KBAC-29D/ EDIT - Augus7us is right, that's a no too
3HP (460V) - http://www.electricmotorwholesale.com/9530-KBAC-45D/ NO, look at the input specs, you don't have Input: 380/460VAC, 3PH


You can keep prices down by staying with 2 hp, but you have decided on 3

Get the vfd first, you can always keep an eye out for used motors.
Even paying $100 shipping and customs I can still save money buying used motors from ebay
You in the us with cheaper shipping and more sellers willing to ship to you, you should easily be able to trim $100 ot more

Make sure you have the vfd first so you can test the motor when you receive it.
 
Last edited:
Then for the VFD, I'd need a KBAC NEMA 4X.. but get confused b/c there is a 230V and a 460V version and not sure which to get to match the motor.
3HP (230V) - http://www.electricmotorwholesale.com/9528-KBAC-29D/ Yes
3HP (460V) - http://www.electricmotorwholesale.com/9530-KBAC-45D/ NO, look at the input specs, you don't have Input: 380/460VAC, 3PH
Click to expand...

Sorry Count don't want to disagree but he does not want either of these.

The 9528 is no good unless you have 3PH input. For single phase get the 10001, I have it and it works for a 3 horse motor.

KBAC-29 3HP NEMA 4X VFD 230VAC 3PH INPUT 9528

Pulleys can be had from Tractor Supply or Amazon. Just get the motor and measure the shaft and buy accordingly. Being a monster my Baldor had a 1 5/8" shaft but I got pulleys from Tractor Supply no problem.

The 56 pattern chassis is what Rob's mounting plate is drilled and tapped for. If you planned on buying that then yes you will need a 56 or 56C chassis motor to fit those holes but you limit what you can buy on Ebay. If you make your own plate (I used 3/4" plywood) then you just need to make sure the motor has a frame with a bolt pattern on the feet and not the face. Or both will do and allow more potential for the motor if you buy a bigger one down the road and want to use the 3HP for something else.
 
Augus,

If I'm going to be running 220, wouldn't I want the 3 Phase VFD to match the 3 PH motor?

This all gets very confusing for some reason.

Also, does any of this make a difference in RPM's on the motor to get?

I'm thinking there should be a flow formula for figuring this out..
Would this be the correct process?

1.) Are you running 110 or 220 from your breaker box? Me: 220
2.) What size motor do you want? Me: 3HP
3.) I want to run a VFD, so best to go with a 3450 RPM motor over a 1740 RPM motor for more torque: Me: 3450
= Since I want a 3HP and running 220V, this should be a 3 Phase motor and VFD

Tell me where I'm making a mistake or how to fix this flow, so can make things easier to understand.

And I really appreciate and knowlege you guys have to transfer.
 
from what I know with my limited electrical skills, most household uses 120v single phase and you can have an electrician come and wire you a 220v outlet which is technically double phase but it is single phase. VFD act as a phase converter so it take in 230v single in your case maybe and spit out 230v three phase into your motor.
 
Hey Hawk,

No worries this stuff is very confusing, even if you know about electricity and such its still confusing.

No not at all, 3 phase is mainly used for industrial power here in the states and is supplied by the power company from the pole, you actually need a third large transformer where your power comes in and that is one reason 3 phase is expensive to install. You have single phase coming in at your house or shop and 3 phase going out the KBAC to the KMG motor. All this has no bearing on volts, I have 3 phase tools from 110v up to 480v! No effect on RPM either, that is hertz or frequency, easy right? :D

The VFD is doing two things for you it is a static phase converter and a variable speed controller. The speed controller is the sole reason people go with the VFD. Otherwise everyone would be powering their KMGs with a rotary phase converter or simple static converter because they can be built much cheaper.

I run 220v from the breaker to my KBAC 29 and that converts it through use of capacitors to store extra electricity to generate the "third" phase that is then sent to my 3 phase motor. In our case (going with a big 3phase 3HP motor) we have to use 220v. On your motor plate you may see 110v/220v or 220v/480v. That can affect horsepower but lets leave that out of the equation now.

For questions 1-3 you and I think alike as I bought exactly what you are describing. 220v 3 Phase 3HP Motor, 3450 RPM and KBAC VFD. Popular opinion is to buy the 1740 RPM motor and slow it down more at say 10% then you can a 3450 RPM motor at 10%. Personally I feel I can slow it way down and have plenty of power and speed it up and send sparks flying at 3450 when I want to hog metal. But alas I am I rookie maker so in a year I may be wishing for 1740. But so far no regrets.

Ok so I'm typing a book again... I think I answered all your questions but if not feel free to post others or PM me. I'm happy to help. Hell if you're close to Cbus and want to stop by and see it in person you're welcome to!

-Clint
 
Augus7us said:
Sorry Count don't want to disagree but he does not want either of these.

The 9528 is no good unless you have 3PH input. For single phase get the 10001, I have it and it works for a 3 horse motor.

KBAC-29 3HP NEMA 4X VFD 230VAC 3PH INPUT 9528
Click to expand...

You're right.


Hawk

You have to watch the input you need single phase 220v
You can't use 3 ph three phase input.
 
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Quote Originally Posted by Hawk45 View Post
I planned on getting the pullys from KMG. So is the "56" motor just have to do with having feet? Or is there another difference?
Click to expand...
Bore size on the pulley
Click to expand...

Interesting Count, I was going to disagree with you on this because I've never seen anyone refer to the frame number in correlation to shaft size, only bolt pattern. So I looked up a frame chart and its actually both and more. Once again I have learned something new from your posts sir :)

NEMA Frame Chart for those interested!

On frame type my opinion is get one that has a bolt pattern on the face (for direct drive mounting) and on the feet for mounting when using a pulley. More options if you decide to use it for something else down the road. Rob Frink told me he knows of guys with 5HP+ motors on their KMGs. I can't imagine ever needing that much power though.
 
OK, so I'll have this setup at my house, right off of my standard house panel in my garage. I was under the impression all I had to do was put in a line like on my washer/drier (220V) off the box, but in my garage and then use the following. Does this look correct or am I still confused? Thanks for taking the extra time, I'm obviously not electrically inclined, and will be having my buddy who is qualified do all the setup at the box.

Motor:
Leeson 116107 3 HP 1740 TEFC 56HC 208-230/460V 3 Phase
http://www.ptjindustrial.com/Leeson_116107_p/116107.htm

VFD:
KBAC-29 3HP NEMA 4X VFD 230VAC 1PH INPUT 10001
http://www.electricmotorwholesale.com/10001-KBAC-29D/
- I'll be adding just the On/Off switch
 
Hawk45 said:
OK, so I'll have this setup at my house, right off of my standard house panel in my garage. I was under the impression all I had to do was put in a line like on my washer/drier (220V) off the box, but in my garage and then use the following. Does this look correct or am I still confused? Thanks for taking the extra time, I'm obviously not electrically inclined, and will be having my buddy who is qualified do all the setup at the box.

Motor:
Leeson 116107 3 HP 1740 TEFC 56HC 208-230/460V 3 Phase
http://www.ptjindustrial.com/Leeson_116107_p/116107.htm

VFD:
KBAC-29 3HP NEMA 4X VFD 230VAC 1PH INPUT 10001
http://www.electricmotorwholesale.com/10001-KBAC-29D/
- I'll be adding just the On/Off switch
Click to expand...

Those two look like they are a matched set.
 
OK, so I'll have this setup at my house, right off of my standard house panel in my garage. I was under the impression all I had to do was put in a line like on my washer/drier (220V) off the box, but in my garage and then use the following. Does this look correct or am I still confused? Thanks for taking the extra time, I'm obviously not electrically inclined, and will be having my buddy who is qualified do all the setup at the box.
Click to expand...

Pretty much. You'll have to make sure your breaker has space for a new 2 pole breaker. Run the wire from the breaker to where your KMG is going to be then wire it up to your motor. Now the proper way to do it is run it through the wall to where your KMG is and put a junction box or receptacle of your choosing and wire up the VFD accordingly then wire the motor to the VFD.

If you have an experienced friend he will know all this, but what you wrote essentially explains it, just like a dryer run.
 
Hawk, First, You need a 220 volt box to run the motor and VFD you want(3 HP 1740 rpm 3 Phase And Kbac 29-d. I am no expert but I have two grinders. One is a KMG which I love and it is fitted with a 2 hp 1725 RPM 3 phase motor and a 5 inch pulley going to a 2 1/2 pulley on the jackshaft and it delivers around 3650 surface feet per minute which is plenty in my opinion. I went from a 1 1/2 hp motor to a 2 hp motor for more power and I could have bought a 3 hp motor but most guys use a 2 hp motor. The 3 hp motor couldn't hurt anything so if you can find a deal buy that. I also have a direct drive Polar Bear Forge grinder that I built and I use a 2 hp 3450 rpm motor because I cannot have pulleys on that grinder. Here's the main thing: The 1725 RPM motors are four pole motors and the 3450 Rpm motors have two poles. The four pole motors are generally regarded as the better motor for this application. Bottom line for me is that the direct drive 3450 Rpm setup is relatively quiet and more than adequate for all my grinding but if I could only have one grinder it would be the KMG with pulleys and a 1725 motor of at least 1 1/2 hp. If you have decided on the KMG grinder and want a 3 hp motor then get a 1725 motor and make sure it has the base mount because some come without them. You want a TEFC motor for sure and maybe get one with both mounts (face mount and base foot) because you never know what you want in the future and that motor would work for anything . Larry PS Buy the KBAC VFD for a 3 hp motor. They are the most popular and respected drive for these grinders. LL
 
Thanks everyone, I think I'm all set with my plans. I really appreciate you taking the time to spoon feed me on this one. Some things just never sink in, hopefully this will in time. I'll show her off and more importantly some work once I have her setup and running.
Cheers,
John
 
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