Help me pick a milsurp rifle!

T

tychoseven

Joined
Aug 9, 2005
Messages
317
I know we've got some folks here who know lots about milsurp rifles, so I wonder if I could get some advice. I'm looking right now at either a Yugo SKS 59/66, or a Yugo Mauser M24/47. Now I know very little about firearms, having never shot one before, but I'm taking a Hunter Ed. class and have some folks to show me safety and technique. I'd like a rifle I can hunt deer with, easy to handle in the bush, but mostly I'll be plinking at the range. Simplicity and ease of take-down is a plus. Accuracy is nice, but so long as I can get 3-4 MOA I'll be happy. Ammo cost and availability is a big factor, and I cannot handload at present. I'm considering the SKS as my first choice because of its low price, and high availability of aftermarket accessories. Most of them come with slings and cleaning kits as well. However, I don't know what else is suitable for my needs. The bolt-action Mauser holds a certain romantic appeal for me, and they're generally cheaper than an SKS of equal condition. I don't want to spend more than $200 on the rifle itself. This will be my first and only rifle for the next few years, so it should be fun to shoot, reliable, easy to strip/clean, and cheap to feed. Any thoughts about what I should get?

Thanks,
Tycho
 
Do all states allow hunting with a magazine-fed semi-auto?

Can you get suitable hunting ammo (soft or hollowpoints) fro an SKS? Military ball won't do.

A Mauser 98 action is a classic "hunting" rifle. Milsurp 8mm was still available for cheap paper-punching last I looked, although not as cheap as fodder for the SKS.
 
@ Thomas Linton:

I hadn't considered the need for non-military ammo or mag size limits...shows how much I know about these things. Just got my C&R packet with all the books and regulations so I have to do some reading and see what the laws are.

Any Mausers I should pick over others, or some to avoid? I notice the German models are about 2x cost of Yugos; is that because of quality or collector value? I'll spend more if it's due to quality, but I'm looking for a shooter, not a wall-hanger.

@ chickenfried:

I hear many good things about the K31, and the only reason I didn't consider it was ammo cost. Is K31 milsurp ammo usually reloadable? That might make a difference, if I could find somebody who would let me use their reloading equipment.

Thanks,
-Tycho-
 
The surplus ammo for the K31 is berdan primed, so it's not EASILY reloaded. But it is considered really good quality for surplus ammo. Prvi Partizan and Wolf(believe it's relabeled prvi?) offer ammo, that is boxer primed and easily reloaded. There is also soft point hunting ammo available from PP and wolf.

Even plinking, accurate guns are more fun. From what I've seen the typical sks grouping at 50 yards will be bigger than k31 groups at 100.
tychoseven said:
@ chickenfried:

I hear many good things about the K31, and the only reason I didn't consider it was ammo cost. Is K31 milsurp ammo usually reloadable? That might make a difference, if I could find somebody who would let me use their reloading equipment.

Thanks,
-Tycho-
Click to expand...
 
One very important thing to consider is the fun factor that comes with different levels of recoil. I had a Yugo Mauser for a while. It kicked like a MULE. Didn't help that it had a steel buttplate. Man that thing would absolutely beat the dickens out of my shoulder. (Still fun to shoot, just takes a little endurance.)

Muzzle energy is not drastically different in the SKS, but because it's semi-auto, the recoil you feel is significantly less.

So. Don't know how big a guy you are or how much your shoulder likes to take the beating, but that can have a pretty big impact on how much you like your new rifle.

Thought I'd throw a little more experience in there.

Mike
 
This was just a month ago...

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=431438&highlight=Mauser

pointsvc8.jpg


I lucked out with this one. Ordering a cheap rifle blind can lead to disappointment. Luck of the draw. Whatever you buy, go for a dealer that shows you the actual rifle you're getting. Condition is everything, since these things aren't worth rebarreling.

Mauser is a fine rifle. Ammo is as cheap as .5/round, 900/$45 at Century.

24/47's are great. An M48 is the same but a little better with the bent bolt.

K-31's are great as well, and are sure to go up in price, but their ammo is like .40/round for GP-11.

Milsurps are so cheap, you can- and should- get one of each, since you've got the C&R. For the cost of a single decent auto pistol, you can get a decent Mauser, Mosin-Nagant, K-31 and throw in a fine CZ 52 pistol.


Mike

edit: only one? Welllll... everybody should have an SKS..... already.
 
Just got your C&R?
Well then the only correct answer is which one FIRST!
I'd go with the 24/47, since they appear to be getting more scarce. Order the SKS 2nd. Get the best condition you can afford - I limit myself to Very Good or better. You should be able to get either one from any of the major dealers for under 200 shipped, with a few boxes of ammo. In fact thtey are such a good deal, why not get two at a time? :D

Pat
 
Outdoors said:
Just got your C&R?
Well then the only correct answer is which one FIRST!

Pat
Click to expand...

Seems that's the case...I'd like to limit it to one gun for a few years, but I have a feeling milsurp rifles are like khukris. There's always that one more that I want....
The issue at present is my lack of permanent housing, and the fact that everything I own must fit on the back of a motorcycle if I with to move. I don't know if I'm staying or leaving next summer and having more stuff than I can tote isn't a great idea. Ideally I'd solve my problem by getting one each of the K31, SKS, and 24/47, but now I have to pick just one.

I'm giving more thought to the 24/47....if anybody knows where I can find an M48 in VG+ condition, I'd be grateful for the tip. Or, maybe some other 8mm Mausers are worthwhile? How much of an improvement is the bent bolt? If anybody has one (or two, or ten :D ) could they comment on accuracy and how easy they are to strip?


@MSCantrell:
I'm 5'9" and 150lbs. Not tiny, but certainly not big. I'll probably get a shoulder pad anyway, no matter which rifle I get.
 
Tycho,

You're about my size (I'm shorter, but a few pounds heavier).

I'd get the Mauser for now. It'll be useful for you to practice gun handling, is legal for hunting deer in any state, and will be a good platform to practice basic gunsmithing, should you ever decide to do so.

Ammo is cheap- cheaper even than 7.62x39mm- but corrosive, so you must always clean your rifle after shooting surplus ammo. Hunting ammo will be more expensive, but can be found. (About $20/20, shipped, from Georgia Arms.)

I'm not knocking the SKS. I've had four of them, IIRC, and wish I'd kept the last one. If your first priority were home defense, I'd say, pick the SKS, unless you live in the middle of a 100-acre pasture.

With an SKS, I'd recommend you switch out the rear sight for a Mojo sight, and you may be pleasantly surprised at how accurate you can be. For that matter, I'd suggest you do the same with a Mauser- the only problem with most foreign guns is the lack of a good peep sight.

John, good luck and have fun!
 
They are all pretty good. Most military arms are, the exceptions being scandelous.

If you get the SKS, you can get a five round mag for hunting, or a block.

I'd probably go SKS or a Mauser varient. I still haven't picked up my own SKS-safe at a friends house. The SKS; get one, get disatisfied, give or sell away, then watch yourself with surprise as you get another to replace it....The rifle that won't stay away.



munk
 
one other issue ...
Parts interchangability.

Most of the Yugo Mausers are intermediate length actions, the German k98 and Czech vz-24 are standard length actions. The Yugo models are also safety breached, (I believe the end of the bolt encases the case head). These variations mean that parts for these rifles won't interchange with the German or Czech rifles. Not a big deal as Yugo parts are readily available, just something to be aware of. If it bugs you though, there's are Yugo reworked k98 actions and Yugo reworked vz24s (24/52C) available that are standard length actions. I got 2 24/52C's from Classic Arms. They are pretty nice - on the high side of good - close to VG.

RE ammo - the Yugo 50's stuff is currently inexpensive and supposed to work fine, but you may need a stronger spring (Wolf #24, I believe) to make it surefire.

Pat
 
T-7,

I really like your possible choices.

My standard deer hunting rifle is a Czech VZ-24 carbine in 7.62 x 51mm (.308) NATO with open sights. For serious plinking with inexpensive ammo the SKS is the one I take. There is hunting ammo in 7.62 x 39 also so the SKS can work in this capacity if semi-auto firearms are allowed. Both are the about the same length and weight. I don't have the eye's to ever be a sniper tack-driver type so either the SKS or the Mauser gives me the range I need within my capabilities. I have many folks fondle my Mauser at deer camp. It drives the guys with the shiny Weatherbys nuts I'm sure. When I bought my VZ-24 Mauser I reblued the action/barrel, stripped and refinished the stock, and glass-bedded the action. I kept the military stock on it and carry it with a sling attached. It has some personality and I'm fond of it.

http://www.iguanasoft.com/~jeffersonian/vz24.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62_×_51_mm_NATO


http://www.simonov.net/editorial/no_respect.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62_x_39_mm

Another very solid and accurate Mauser to consider is the Swiss model 96. The recoil isn't as stout as my .308 but the 6.5 x 55 mm cartridge is readily available and a great hunting and target round. I think one of these Swiss Mausers won an Olympic shooting match some years ago.

http://www.surplusrifle.com/mauserswedish/index.asp

With the change in Congress I would suggest that you don't wait to get one. I foresee gun bans in the near future.
 
I think the '96 is Swedish!
:)

A little pricey.

I'd vote for the mauser 24/47, they can be had from distributors for around 100.

Cheaper than rebarreling my non shooting brazilian mauser!

Tom
 
Both rifles that interest you are good choices.

The SKS is cheap to buy and ammo is also cheap. Under $160.00. The down side is it's not terribly accurate, but is is fun. Almost no recoil when fired. A lot of history is attached to it.

The Mauser selections available right now are super. Extremly nice ones can be purchased for $120.00 or less. Ammo is dirt cheap. I just got two 900 round cans for $49.50 each. The Mausers are pretty darn accurate. They do have a fairly strong recoil. If you like history you can go broke buying Mauser varients.

I have both types of rifles in my collection and I enjoy them both. I have to admit to liking the Mausers better because of the better accuracy and endless history attached to them.

Cheap to shoot is a real plus.

One last thought. SKS ammo is non-corrosive. Mil-surp 8MM Mauser ammo is corrosive. Corrosive ammo is not even a consideration when you clean the rifle properly after shooting.

I'll be glad to post some good links if you would like.
 
I think I prefer the Mauser at present, though really I'd like one and an SKS. The more I read about the Mauser, the more I want to shoot one, and it's more practical for hunting as-is.

Two more questions:
I've had a tough time finding M48s, so I wonder how much of an improvement is the bent bolt over the straight? Should I wait around for an M48 or just grab what's available now? Also, given the choice between a rifle in Excellent condition for $140 and the same rifle in Very Good + Handpick for $120, is the Excellent still a better choice?

Cavetech, if you have an links, I'd be grateful. I've been to all the C&R dealers that surplusrifle.com links to, and M48s are a rare find.

Edit: What's this large-ring/small-ring action business all about? Do I need to think about this?
 
tychoseven said:
Two more questions:
I've had a tough time finding M48s, so I wonder how much of an improvement is the bent bolt over the straight? Should I wait around for an M48 or just grab what's available now? Also, given the choice between a rifle in Excellent condition for $140 and the same rifle in Very Good + Handpick for $120, is the Excellent still a better choice?

Cavetech, if you have an links, I'd be grateful. I've been to all the C&R dealers that surplusrifle.com links to, and M48s are a rare find.

Edit: What's this large-ring/small-ring action business all about? Do I need to think about this?
Click to expand...

1) I'm a southpaw, so I actually prefer the straight bolt on the mausers. YMMV.

2) Wait and they will be gone ... or more will come in at a better price or better condition. Difficult to say - Always in motion the future is ;)

3) VG rated rifles can be very nice ... but I'd probably skip the handpick. It's usually just best of five, unless you ask for something in particular (specific year, all matching, good bore, etc.). The excellent rifles are noticably better. Again others may disagree.

4) The Yugos are all large ring. The difference between large ring and small ring is the thickness (and thread size) of the receiver ring, addition of a larger gas shroud at the back of the bolt, additional safety lug, and larger gas release holes in the bolt. There are German made small ring Model 98s (with small ring and threads, but they have the bolt improvements), just to ad to the confusion.

Pat
 
I bought a Yugo SKS three months ago and I love it. I've put over 2000 rds. of the Russian made Wolf brand ammo with no problems. Just one thing if you are buying one just out of storage disassemble it and clean it thoroughly. They are loaded with cosmoline, especially in the trigger assembly. Good luck.
 
OK. Some links. You can get commercial ones anyplace. These are links to real posts by gun owners who have purchased what you are interested in and posted reports and pics.

http://forum.ramanon.com/showthread.php?t=42021

http://forum.ramanon.com/showthread.php?t=41537

http://forum.ramanon.com/showthread.php?t=41397

http://forum.ramanon.com/showthread.php?t=41442

http://www.myownplace.us/at_the_range.htm

That's a bunch. Hope it helps. If you look through those sites you'll find a lot of mil-surp rifle stuff.
 
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