Help Me Pick a Steel for a Bushcraft Knife

[Scott Free]

I've made about a dozen or so knifes, and so far, they've all come out fairly decent. I'm not sure if I can do it, but I'm going to try a scandi grind on the next one. First, though, I need to decide on a steel. I want carbon, and I'm fine with the performance of any of the carbon steels. That said, I'm also looking for the most rust resistant steel that isn't D2. So how do 1095, A2 and O1 compare for rust resistance? Any other steel I should consider? Thanks.

 

[Daniel Koster]

A2 will do the best of those three...

Thought about 3V? (higher % of chromium than A2)

 

[udtjim]

1095 is fine. IF YOU DO YOUR PART. Keep it clean and dry. If you get in the habbit of it, it's pretty easy to do. 1095 is more forgiving than most people think. IMO. However if you are in a real harsh climate I would go with a good stainless.

 

[Scott Free]

Thought about 3V? (higher % of chromium than A2)

I don't know anything about 3V. In fact, I've never heard of it. Can someone enlighten me?

 

[Scott Free]

1095 is fine. IF YOU DO YOUR PART.However if you are in a real harsh climate I would go with a good stainless.

I'm stainless friendly--usually. It's just that this is going to be a scandi grind, and as such, there's a lot of steel to remove when you sharpen it. That's why I prefer carbon in this case. Or am I thinking about this wrong--or is there something else I don't know?

 

[Ravaillac]

I don't know anything about 3V. In fact, I've never heard of it.

CPM-3V, it's Crucible current "super-steel" when it comes to carbon steels.

From both my experience and charts, it is significantly tougher than most carbon steels (Crucible charts say about twice as tough as A2 -but that's Crucibe), and holds an edge well. Quite rust resistant too thanks to high alloy.

The only downside is that it is significantly more difficult to sharpen than most other carbon steels (particularly when compared to plain 10xx carbon steels).

 

[C_Claycomb]

Use A2. O-1 and 1095 will rust as soon as you look at them, in the wrong conditons. They make good knives and work very well for scandi grindes, but A2 will give you a little more corrosion resistance while still working very well as a wide-bevel-wood-carver. You do not want something with too many carbides that has too much wear resistance. A 3/8th wide bevel takes a lot of work to flatten out properly. I recently did it with a D2 blade that looked flat, but still took 45 minutes starting with 120 grit wet and dry.

A friend took his A2 Skookum tool to Borneo. Mostly had it in his bag for jungle travel, but for at least one night he did leave it wet, in its soaked leather sheath, and all it got was a little spot rusting.
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27462

As Requested, pictures of the skookum after it returned from 2 months in Borneo, sorry for the delay in getting these up.

It hasnt been cleaned up at all, other than sharpening.

 

[hollowdweller]

I'd like to put in a good word for the 3v.

I have a lot of scandi grind knives, but I have to say the one that I have from Dan Koster in 3v has the toughest edge.

On almost all of my scandis I have experienced some micro chipping if the edge was honed out too fine.

However on the 3v mine is stropped out super fine and NO chipping!

Now the downside is it is VERY slow to sharpen. On the upside it is VERY slow to dull.

The 01 is way easier to get super sharp for sure, and if you get micro chipping you can usually strop it out, but for sheer toughness and the ability to take a really thin fine edge w/o deforming the 3V has really impressed me:thumbup:

 

[sodak]

If you are going to do a Scandi grind, then I'd personally stay away from 3V, for the sharpening reasons that HD gave. But, like he said, it keeps it's edge for a long time, so it's probably personal preference. For a flat grind with a small secondary bevel, I'd put it on the top of my list.

I like most of the steels mentioned here, but don't forget 52100. It holds an edge well, and won't be so abrasion resistant as to make sharpening a long chore. But it will rust, like most of the others.

Post a pic when you're done!

 

[the possum]

Use A2. O-1 and 1095 will rust as soon as you look at them, in the wrong conditons.

Would you consider finishing the blades to a high degree of polish? As in, mirror finish or near to it? That would greatly increase stain and corrosion resistance. Example- I've been working on a small blade of O-1, and I wet sand with 220 grit sandpaper through 400 or so, with water. At that stage, the blade and microscopic "filings" will stain brown within 30 seconds. However, as I progress up through the grits, the blade starts acting like stainless. Now it's nearly done with the 8000 grit Shapton stone HoB was so generous to send my way, and I can handle it with sweaty hands for hours with absolutely no staining. I polish it with the stone with running water as before, and again, after 2 hours in water there is absolutely no discoloration. Even the "filings" settled in the bottom of the water bowl remained gray after 3 days underwater, instead of turning to a rusty brown clump like happens with the coarser grits.

It's just that this is going to be a scandi grind, and as such, there's a lot of steel to remove when you sharpen it.

Sounds like you could understand why I see no practical point in sharpening a knife like that. You could make a microbevel with a few swipes at the very edge at just higher enough of an angle so you don't scratch the sides of the blade. Would increasing the edge angle by one degree really degrade things all that much? Especially considering a full flat grind and edge bevel could be even thinner still from the start?

 

[hollowdweller]

If you are going to do a Scandi grind, then I'd personally stay away from 3V, for the sharpening reasons that HD gave. But, like he said, it keeps it's edge for a long time, so it's probably personal preference. For a flat grind with a small secondary bevel, I'd put it on the top of my list.

That's interesting. Flat grind w secondary would be my last choice in that steel because I find that sort of a grind harder to sharpen anyway and the 3v would make it even tougher.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Would you consider finishing the blades to a high degree of polish? As in, mirror finish or near to it? That would greatly increase stain and corrosion resistance. Example- I've been working on a small blade of O-1, and I wet sand with 220 grit sandpaper through 400 or so, with water. At that stage, the blade and microscopic "filings" will stain brown within 30 seconds. However, as I progress up through the grits, the blade starts acting like stainless. Now it's nearly done with the 8000 grit Shapton stone HoB was so generous to send my way, and I can handle it with sweaty hands for hours with absolutely no staining. I polish it with the stone with running water as before, and again, after 2 hours in water there is absolutely no discoloration. Even the "filings" settled in the bottom of the water bowl remained gray after 3 days underwater, instead of turning to a rusty brown clump like happens with the coarser grits.

I haven't tried finishing to that high a polish. 8000 grit is pretty fine and the closest that I have come has been with 1200g paper followed by a polish loaded strop worked over the whole blade. The problem is that the blade then shows every errant scratch as a result of sharpening, or use. This is particularly noticeable with Kydex sheaths. I will give the super polish a try on my carry knife and see how it works. I know that high finish helps resist rust, but have been a little lazy about all that hand sanding (no buffer)

In the end though you are trying to substitute high process cost (time and effort) in place of material properties. The original post asked about materials and if you finish all the steels mentioned equally, the O-1 will still rust before the A2. Also, on a scandi you can super finish the flats, but the bevels are going to be whatever finish you get with field sharpening.

 

[the possum]

The problem is that the blade then shows every errant scratch as a result of sharpening, or use. ...In the end though you are trying to substitute high process cost (time and effort) in place of material properties.

I see it more as a different compromise between having a blade that shows scratches easily vs. one that stains easily. Niether of which I'm too concerned about on my working knives, oddly enough.

Also, on a scandi you can super finish the flats, but the bevels are going to be whatever finish you get with field sharpening.

I was still writing from the perspective of preferring secondary edge bevels or full convex vs. scandi, I suppose. But if the OP still wants to sharpen his blade that way, well, then I don't see staining as an issue either. Any light rust would be removed from the grinds in sharpening, and if a moderately coarse stone is ever used, the finish would be all scratched to hell anyways. Just leave the forge scale on the flats to protect the steel, and it won't show marks from use. (Come to think of it, I've seen several traditional scandis done exactly like that. Hmmmm...)

 

[sodak]

One thing no one is mentioning is getting a good steel, then coating the blade. No more rust problems except on the edge, which disappears on sharpening. I would pay money to see a "tactical" scandi, heh heh heh ...

Now that I think about it, I have a couple from Ragnar. The large butcher knives have a coating of sorts, helps keep the rust off, and have a very wide scandi type bevel.

 

[kgd]

Wouldn't too much of the blade be exposed at each sharpening to make coating a scandi grind worthwhile?

I've often wondered about the earlier comment of putting a micro-bevel on a scandi. In other threads people indicate that it reduces cutting efficiency but I can't see it making that dramatic a difference if for example you touched up your scandi on a sharpmaker with some light strokes. After at the micro-bevel/scandi interface you still have this thin edge to facilitate cutting.

 

[Daniel Koster]

Given the 2 parameters initially listed:

"I want carbon"
"most rust resistant that's not D2"


I'd recommend 3V or 5160

5160 is easily polished. My personal EDC (a fixed blade custom) is made from 5160. I took it to 400 grit, then hit it on a fine-grit buff. I have had it on my waistband in a leather sheath for a few months now without even a single spot...and I use it like crazy in the shop...even sometimes with food at home. No tarnishing so far...I've been very impressed.

5160 is a lot easier to sharpen/grind/etc than 3V too.

But 3V would still be my first choice.

Dan


p.s. are there other parameters we should consider?