Recommendation? Help me run a light off 220v vfd

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MakerinArms

Joined
May 27, 2023
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10
Hey guys, been lurking off an on for several years and decided to finally join up so I could ask a technical question I couldn't find an answer to. (Didn't see an introductions thread so if I need to do that let me know)

My question is- In an effort to limit cords ran all over my shop and keep things tidy I want to try and connect a light I have mounted to my grinder to the vfd but I'm not seeing a way to do it through the digging I've done. I want to keep it low profile so just making connections in the vfd would be preferred but if not I understand. Anyone have any solutions?

Basically the goal is to only plug in one thing to the walk to run the grinder and light. And maybe a linear motor later for an adjustable tool stand i have an idea for.

Relevant info- Just built the housemade revolution grinder, slapped a 3hp motor on it because it was only $50 more and why not? Used the kbac-29 for the vfd. Everything works awesome with no complaints.

VFD manual- https://acim.nidec.com/drives/kbele...ts/product-manuals/kbac-manual-j01.ashx?la=en

Light in question- https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07W55K9MP?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Here is the motor- https://www.amazon.com/dp/B094FLPSFH?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Actually, if I could tap off the motor somehow that would be even less wire I would need to tie together, but idk if that's possible. Electronics are not my strong suit.


My question is- in an effort to limit cords ran all over my shop and keep things tidy I want to try and connect a light
 
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Welcome to Shop Talk.

Best option would be to run the power from te breaker to the VFD to a junction box and split off a 110VAC or 220VAC line (whichever you need) to the switch for the motor and switch for the light. The switches could be mounted on the junction box if you use a deep quad box. The junction box could be mounted directly under the VFD, with the VFD attached to it with a conduit connector. Very compact and no extra wiring.

Alternatively, you can use a deep single gang box and put a socket on the top of the box to plug in the light and motor (or any other device).

I can draw those schematics out if needed, but I think it should be clear as written.
 
I think I understand what you mean, basically just tapping into one leg of the 220 to make the 110 outlet. What would I do about the neutral? As it sits I just have a 3 wire going to the vfd, 2 hot and a ground. I could swap the line but I like using the 20amp plug for both my compressor and the grinder.

Saw a video where I guy took a transformer to do basically the same thing I'm thinking for his mill but the transformer is about $100
 
One hot wire and the ground. The neutral is the same potential as ground in most USA fuse boxes. I know that there is a technical difference, but that should be fine for the light. Of course, you could just use a 220V bulb in the light and not worry at all. No neutral needed.

You didn't tell us much about the motor for the bench adjustment, but I assume it runs a little hydraulic lifter. That should be fine with a hot leg and ground, too.

I'm sure some of the electricians here will chime in on how bad that sounds, and I will remove it if they have a valid reason not to do it.
 
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That sounds simple enough. I bought the light then realized I would have cords everywhere. So now I'm working backwards with what I already have.

I had another electrician guy say that it's doable to use one leg but can cause excess wear on the wires? Idk, I won't be drawing too much power off that one leg so I honestly don't see it being an issue.

So for the motor it's actually an electronic actuator that's probably gonna be 20". Basically exactly what is in a standing desk and actually what inspired me to do an adjustable tool stand. The thought went from adjustable workbench, to that to have a smaller footprint. still not sold and may build a whole adjustable bench with the right weight capacity
 
Battery powered LED light..... 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Sorry. I'm kinda a jerk. ;)

But you Only have one outlet near your grinder?
How far away is your next closest outlet?

My vfd is single phase in, 3 out.
Super easy.

If you really are restricted, the battery powered lamp Might not be a bad idea. Instead of paying for More electrical work.
 
Crag the Brewer said:
Battery powered LED light..... 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Sorry. I'm kinda a jerk. ;)

But you Only have one outlet near your grinder?
How far away is your next closest outlet?

My vfd is single phase in, 3 out.
Super easy.

If you really are restricted, the battery powered lamp Might not be a bad idea. Instead of paying for More electrical work.
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I’m gonna be honest I kinda hate batteries for stationary items. It would annoy me more than having a cord ran across the shop.

My vfd is also single phase in 3 out. It’s the kbac 29 to a 3hp motor.

As of right now that whole 28’ wall just has a couple 220 outlets. My shop is in a long term remodel and the office and gym in there are priority but put on hold for the moment. I’ll then do the wall the grinder is on but I do have one 5ft to the left of me back under my horizontal band saw but I’m also going to be moving the grinder from its current location to right by the compressor so I don’t have a cord and airhose ran all the way down that wall and on the floor.

The main goal is to just cut down the amount of cords and wires coming off this one thing. Just clean and out of the way, no tripping hazards, less clutter, etc
 
MakerinArms said:
I’m gonna be honest I kinda hate batteries for stationary items. It would annoy me more than having a cord ran across the shop.

My vfd is also single phase in 3 out. It’s the kbac 29 to a 3hp motor.

As of right now that whole 28’ wall just has a couple 220 outlets. My shop is in a long term remodel and the office and gym in there are priority but put on hold for the moment. I’ll then do the wall the grinder is on but I do have one 5ft to the left of me back under my horizontal band saw but I’m also going to be moving the grinder from its current location to right by the compressor so I don’t have a cord and airhose ran all the way down that wall and on the floor.

The main goal is to just cut down the amount of cords and wires coming off this one thing. Just clean and out of the way, no tripping hazards, less clutter, etc
Click to expand...

Outlet strip that the drive, and lights and whatever feed into, Then into the wall?
 
Craig, he only has 220 on the wall. He needed 110.

His best solution would be to run a new line down the wall with 110 and 220 outlets, but he says he isn't doing that yet.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Craig, he only has 220 on the wall. He needed 110.

His best solution would be to run a new line down the wall with 110 and 220 outlets, but he says he isn't doing that yet.
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Correct, only 220 on the wall. and even then idk if that’s the solution I actually want. If I could have an all in one, plug in one thing to run the grinder/vfd and the light works too that would be awesome.

I could just wait and do a work bench and have an outlet on the back i can plug into for adjusting height , lights, then i could also mount my mini band saw to it and plug in there. Then just do a crap ton of cable management
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
One hot wire and the ground. The neutral is the same potential as ground in most USA fuse boxes. I know that there is a technical difference, but that should be fine for the light. Of course, you could just use a 220V bulb in the light and not worry at all. No neutral needed.

You didn't tell us much about the motor for the bench adjustment, but I assume it runs a little hydraulic lifter. That should be fine with a hot leg and ground, too.

I'm sure some of the electricians here will chime in on how bad that sounds, and I will remove it if they have a valid reason not to do it.
Click to expand...
Using a grounding conductor as a neutral is illegal and potentially dangerous. Oftentimes the grounding conductor is sized one AWG smaller than the current carrying conductors or is uninsulated. An uninsulated current carrying conductor is dangerous for what should be obvious reasons, and a smaller conductor cannot safely carry the potential amperage load of the circuit. However, sometimes the grounding conductors ARE the same size as the normally current carrying conductors. However, even then it is unsafe because the grounding system is bonded to every metal device on it's path back to where it's bonded to the neutral at the first panel (and ONLY the first panel/source). It is also typically spliced in every non-metallic junction box with a wire nut or "wago," and often in boxes with MULTIPLE CIRCUITS. If someone were, for example, to remove a wire nut and touch a grounding conductor used as a neutral, they could be shocked or electrocuted. If the circuit being used for the VFD is dedicated and goes directly back to the main panel then the hazard is reduced, but not eliminated; you'll still have a hot grounding conductor bus. If it goes to a subpanel first then you've created a hazard there as well. If it were me I would find a way to combine my wiring into one conduit or cable with a neutral wire or just run a separate circuit if I had the funds. If you're going to tap one leg of your 220V circuit for a light, make sure you're using a neutral to get your 120V. If your fixture is rated for 220V, you're golden as long as everything is sized properly. The "grounding conductor" is part of a safety system and should only carry current under fault conditions.
 
I didn't look at the light link. It will run on the 220V.

The actuator shown won't likely work for an adjustable height grinder. It has a 100mm stroke at 50N in the specs, which is roughly a 4" stroke of 12 pounds-force.
 
Don't use the ground (grounding conductor) for a neutral (grounded conductor). Since the grounding conductor is bonded to the frame of the machine if the ground is broken between the machine and the panel the machine can become energized with you becoming the path to ground, and then you get bzzzzt and lots of cussing.
Run another circuit
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
I didn't look at the light link. It will run on the 220V.

The actuator shown won't likely work for an adjustable height grinder. It has a 100mm stroke at 50N in the specs, which is roughly a 4" stroke of 12 pounds-force.
Click to expand...
I didn't link an actuator? The one I'm looking at has a 20" stroke and 900N of force, shoud be 200ish lbs of force (if google didn't lie to me). If I wanted to go overboard there is another with 6000N of force.

here it is from amazon- Happybuy Electric Actuator 20 Inches Electric Cylinder 12V Actuator Electric Actuators 900N Heavy Duty Actuators with Mounting Bracket for Recliner TV Table Lift Massage Bed Electric Sofa

(Is amazon fine to link to? It's non knife related so isn't a competitor to anyone here. Just want to stay within the rules)
 
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Actually, the actuator popped up while I was looking at the thread and I thought it was your link. It was probably an AI suggestion.

900N is more power. I noticed that the reviews mentioned a plastic worm gear and thin shear pins. This is not good. Also, the rated power on these types of things is usually suspect. I would figure it provides 700-800N in reality. They rate things at the point where it gets destroyed, not at what it can do repeatedly.

900N is around 200 pound-force. An adjustable base and grinder can easily weigh to that. Try and keep weight down. I would construct the entire assembly from aluminum angle stock. TIG all the solid joints.

As to the links, all the links you have posted are not allowed. I would appreciate it if you would remove them.
 
I was waiting for Stacy to comment on the links. From my understanding is is ok to post the item number B07J2FT1T2 land mention doing a search on Amazon. Stacy, am I correct in this method?
 
Yes, you can post something like:
I am looking at - Happybuy Electric Actuator 20 Inches Electric Cylinder 12V Actuator Electric Actuators 900N Heavy Duty Actuators with Mounting Bracket for Recliner TV Table Lift Massage Bed Electric Sofa - on Amazon. Will this work for an adjustable height grinder?"

"I am going to get this motor on Amazon - 3HP Electric Motor 3450RPM General Purpose Three Phase Motor 230V/460V CW/CCW TEFC 2Pole 60HZ. Will it work with my VFD?"
 
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