Help me understand - diamond stone sharpening

I’d keep the krud kutter away from your knives.
 
rycen said:
I’d keep the krud kutter away from your knives.
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Can you say more about that? Why keep krud kutter away, and what do you recommend as a lubricant for diamond stones?

Thanks everyone for the replies, you’re all very kind and generous with your time; I’m grateful. I’ll try some of these suggestions and see what shakes out.
 
All great suggestion above.

Try this simple approach if you feel lost…
Start with a flat kitchen style knife and focus only on the flat portion of the blade. Don’t fuss with the curve/belly. Apex one side with 600 grit then flip to opposite side.

Your goal?

Try to hear and feel a proper stroke as you apex the edge on one side.

Keep reapplying sharpie and listen learn how it feels and sounds when you are holding the knife at the correct angle.
 
There is nothing like having a good magnifying loupe. Or a microscope, but we won't go into that now.

Chances are you are not getting to the edge on one side or other. A loupe can tell you which side, so you can adjust your technique and spend more time on that side.
 
You have had a ton of great advice here, so I'm not going to pile on. I would seriously check out all that has been said so far and try it on a cheap knife. Get something at a gun show or flea market, and practice. Don't practice on your expensive knives. Of course the feel will be different, but the principles remain the same. You might also want to do some very in depth searches. This has been covered many times by forumites here over the last 20 years or so, and many of them are sharpening wizards. Jeff Clark had some great posts about removing burrs as well. Back in the early 2000's.

You ask 10 different people, you'll get 10 different methods, and they all work - for those people. It's very individual.

For example, I can easily get a very sharp edge on high hardness high alloy steels because they burr very little. I think they are the easiest steels to sharpen by a mile, but most people think they take forever to sharpen. Not with diamond stones, they don't. The steels that frustrate me are low hardness steels. 1095 at 55 HRC is the worst, by far, in my opinion. Can't get rid of that burr for love or money. 1095 at 65 HRC is a thing of beauty, super easy to sharpen, and 50x the edge holding.

What helped me turn the corner in sharpening was getting an Edge Pro. Only then could I feel the edge all the way along the process and get a repeatable, extremely sharp edge. I seldom use it any more, because I enjoy hand sharpening more. But the EP taught me the process, since I didn't have anyone around to teach me.
 
Krud kutter if we’re talking about the same thing is a fairly strong degreaser. It could damage/discolor some of the materials used in knives. Also lubricating diamond stones isn’t really necessary.
 
Use an angle guide that clamps to the spine of the blade; forget the rubber angle guides as they don't ensure a consistent angle. Don't use any lubricant; hone dry. Just clean the DMTs with soap and hot water and a plastic scrubber or (much, much better) wipe them down with BreakFree CLP to lift out the swarf. Use light strokes; it doesn't take much pressure.
 
i bought a cheap usb microscope and that helped me a lot in understanding what i'm actually doing.

sometimes it looks like you put a decent edge on but under the microscope you can see the microbevel.
 
GAGL said:
i bought a cheap usb microscope and that helped me a lot in understanding what i'm actually doing.

sometimes it looks like you put a decent edge on but under the microscope you can see the microbevel.
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Same here. It's also great for figuring out how far you have to go to reach the apex when you're reprofiling a blade.
 
More important than the stone used is seeing the actual apex forming.

I like the jewelers eye loop in 10x by Belomo with a strong light,,,,, LED flashlight works great.
In addition, the low cost digital microscope with USB connection to your computer screen are excellent 50x-250x will clearly show burr formation, stubborn burrs that appear to be the apex edge but will quickly crumble when applied to cutting.

No one has discussed burr formation and most importantly,,,,, how to remove a burr. Do not go with the old adage of drawing the knife edge through wood, cork, etc. this will only rip off the burr and leave a ragged apex behind.
With the proper stone technique you can form a crisp apex with 300 grit or coarser stone,,, without the drag through wood or stropping to remove a stubborn burr.

Regards,
FK
 
"crisp yes but the depth of the 300 grit scratches will be reflected in the apex line: zig zaggy"

True however, this should be the finish on 300 grit prior to moving on to 600 grit.
Many applications work great with 300 grit finish,,, cutting poly rope or straps, cardboard and other coarse materials.
So many do not remove the burr and just proceed on to the next finer grit.
They end up with a nice sharp burr and then cannot understand why the edge dulls so quickly,,, must be the steel or heat treat is the most common answer for retained burr.

Regards.
FK
 
rycen said:
Krud kutter if we’re talking about the same thing is a fairly strong degreaser. It could damage/discolor some of the materials used in knives. Also lubricating diamond stones isn’t really necessary.
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Older thread, but I hope I can save someone some grief, and can 100% confirm this. I re-profiled and sharpened a Bradford G3 in M390 and a gen 2 Hogue Deca in magnacut today during a 3 hour session. Heard a lot of people liked using krud kutter so I had picked some up a while back and decided to try it. When I finished and went to wash both knives I found that they both had damage to the finish. Looks dirty and cloudy but doesn't come off with dish soap and sponge, nor with rubbing alcohol, nor with mineral oil. Pretty sure krud kutter ate the stonewash away...
 
NYCJay said:
...Pretty sure krud kutter ate the stonewash away...
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FWIW, I use a mixture of about 2/3 kerosene and 1/3 mineral oil on my diamond plates. (I prefer that to using the plates dry, because it seems to lubricate the sharpening process, and I figure it helps to move swarf out of the way.) After done sharpening, I blot the plates dry with a clean rag. Then, once every blue moon, I wash the diamond plates with water and dish detergent, which usually removes a bit more steel. I once had an issue with rust developing on a diamond plate when I just used water (I suspect there was some steel swarf left that turned into rust.) I've also heard people say that you can get problems with galvanic corrosion, etc., if you use water or an aqueous electrolytic solution like Krudcutter. (Youtuber OUTDOORS55, who seems to know what he's talking about, says he never uses water on diamond stones.) I figure kero/oil as a lubricant should prevent any kind of corrosion, since it's not an electrolyte like water is...YMMV.
 
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I have been been using heavily diluted Krud Kutter for a long time with no problems. The stones stay clean through the whole process, and a quick rinse with water is all they need to stay sharp and shiny. I have gotten the solution too strong and that is a slimy mess, but if I dilute it enough it is easy to deal with.

More than a few drops, but nothing like it comes out of the bottle.
 
At work we use emulsion on our grinding machines with diamond grinding tools but not to lubricate but to cool down the tool and workpiece.

I only use diamond plates for knife sharpening and I use them dry. I personaly se no benefit to use a lubricant.
During sharpening I clean my diamond plates with a brush.
 
TheOne45 said:
At work we use emulsion on our grinding machines with diamond grinding tools but not to lubricate but to cool down the tool and workpiece.

I only use diamond plates for knife sharpening and I use them dry. I personaly se no benefit to use a lubricant.
During sharpening I clean my diamond plates with a brush.
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Water will reduce clogging.

No water (dry)

Screenshot_20231111-152645.png

Water
Screenshot_20231111-152711.png
 
Top Gunner said:
Can you say more about that? Why keep krud kutter away, and what do you recommend as a lubricant for diamond stones?

Thanks everyone for the replies, you’re all very kind and generous with your time; I’m grateful. I’ll try some of these suggestions and see what shakes out.
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50% rubbing alcohol. In a small spray bottle. Either spray the blade or spray the stone. I spray the blade.

When you take a stone off the holder. 50% rubbing alcohol to clean it. Douse the stone down and wipe it off.

Cleaning the blade in between grits. Same 50%.
 
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