Help Me Understand the Aftermarket

Havoc550

Havoc550

Joined
Oct 9, 2011
Messages
758
I am very new here, but I have bought several custom knives (from this forum) and have recently acquired several swamp rats, a few Busse's and have more on the way. Pricing these out new directly from the shop really got my attention and confusion for that matter in the aftermarket. So I ask, why are people charging the same or more for a used Busse when compared to a fresh one from the shop? Why are people selling new Busse's for several hundred more than again, what could be bought from the shop? Some of it is in blatant poor taste especially when the knife is in current production and sitting there on the front page of the website!!

I know the common answer is always "cause people will pay it" and "they don't want to wait". But then I question you as to how many people had no idea they could acquire these knives brand new for much less? And then we have the claims of "rare" and "never to be made again", which is true sometimes, but not always. What happens when that person feels ripped off and never buys a Busse again? Its a lose/lose situation really.

I would like to point out that this is not an attempt to start a flame war and I have not linked any sales or names to this post. I am just looking for information.
 
Sometimes it takes the custom shop over a year to make a knife, so when you say " they don't want to wait," that is most likely the reason. As for me, I ALWAYS research the originial price of the knife before I buy one on the exchange forum that someone has jacked up the price 30%. And I always try to haggle a bit, as people do to me. If you think the price is to high, send the seller a PM with a reasonable offer; worst thing they can say is no.
 
Havoc550 said:
I am very new here, but I have bought several custom knives (from this forum) and have recently acquired several swamp rats, a few Busse's and have more on the way. Pricing these out new directly from the shop really got my attention and confusion for that matter in the aftermarket. So I ask, why are people charging the same or more for a used Busse when compared to a fresh one from the shop? Why are people selling new Busse's for several hundred more than again, what could be bought from the shop? Some of it is in blatant poor taste especially when the knife is in current production and sitting there on the front page of the website!!

I know the common answer is always "cause people will pay it" and "they don't want to wait". But then I question you as to how many people had no idea they could acquire these knives brand new for much less? And then we have the claims of "rare" and "never to be made again", which is true sometimes, but not always. What happens when that person feels ripped off and never buys a Busse again? Its a lose/lose situation really.

I would like to point out that this is not an attempt to start a flame war and I have not linked any sales or names to this post. I am just looking for information.
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This subject comes up many times a year.
I am very confused by some of your comments.
Not sure what current production knife you are referring to being on the website that people are charging several hundred dollars more for.
On bussecombat.com is the AALB. As far as I know the Argonne Assault Light Brigade is not supposed to ship for a couple months, any available on the exchange now would be much older collectible models (non Light Brigade) that would be priced higher since they all started out more expensive to begin with.
On bussecompanystore.com the SAR 6 LE is still showing, but it has been sold out for the better part of a year now, so if you want one, you pay what the buyer asks to get one or go without.
What website are you looking at? :confused:

The simplest answer is factory direct pricing = apple while aftermarket exchange = orange.
Comparing apple to orange leaves a funny taste in your mouth because they are no where near the same no matter how bad you may wish otherwise.

Some things in life are just what they are, right, wrong or indifferent.
Time works against the value of the dollar and for tangible goods like knives and guns which go up in price almost every year consistently.
If you can get a knife direct from the company for the price you want and are willing to wait for it, then go for it.
If you can't, then you are left with the aftermarket and the supply and demand principle of basic economics driven prices.

Some models that are very popular really are not ever offered again so they will go for more money as a result.
Just like buying anything, the uninformed or impatient consumer will probably get taken advantage of, but that is their choice, so buyer beware applies everywhere.
If the buyer feels ripped off they should point the blame at who is really responsible and that would be the buyer who rushed to overpay instead of performing due diligence.
The beautiful thing is if the buyer does not like the prices there is no one forcing them to pay them, so it is really on the buyer to have some patience waiting for the right deal to come along.
Frustrating, yes. Going to change, probably not, just like gas will probably not be $1.25/gallon like it was 9 years ago either. :(

 
Busse, Swamprat, and Scrapyard makes their knives in batches, and for the most part when the run is done, it will not be made again, in the same configuration. And yes leadtime is a big reason, most people dont want to order a knife and wait 8-12 weeks for delivery.

If people don't do their homework and overpay then :confused: I can understand them being upset they paid a higher price, but they had to want the knife enough to buy it in the first place. No regrets:cool:

No one is forcing anyone to buy any of the knives on the exchange. The knives are worth what the market will bear - supply and demand. From what I understand it used to be much more of a sellers market in the past.
 
Patience is its own reward. Only buy stuff from the Busse shop itself. This way, you'll never over pay.
 
TerryBlinski said:
Patience is its own reward. Only buy stuff from the Busse shop itself. This way, you'll never over pay.
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People bitch about Busse Combats prices all the time. It's impossible to please everybody. Recently I sold a bunch of knives, all well below my cost, and some people had the nerve to haggle then bitch when I wouldn't budge on my prices.
 
verisharp: I have haggled on a few knives and only bought those that were less or damn close to the original price. That factored in with shipping fee's and paypal fee's, I have gotten some decent deals. I would rather not have the knife than look at it on my wall knowing I got taken.

AZTimT: Check out Swamp Rats main page, not the company store, then look at the latest knives on the exchange. There are two examples right there. And the Gladius I have on the way is $400+ cheaper than one that sold on ebay recently. Both black blades with G10, there was nothing special about the ebay model. I know the satin is over twice as much, but that wasn't the case here. The BWM I have on the way as well is $100-$200 cheaper than what people are asking and some of those are used. I know there are special versions and what not, but some look and are described as pretty vanilla.

I know no one is forcing anyone to pay these prices. In the end, its the consumer that decides what they want to pay. However, in some cases, the market can be artificially inflated when a few people mark stuff way up and other people take suit and do the same. That poor guy that wanted that one special knife now has to pay way more because of it. Its similar to when ticket scalpers buy up all the front row seats so none of the real people who want to see the concert can get one. They then jack the price up and become unnecessary middle-men.

I just made my first knife last week and have been really into this hobby lately. I was just disappointed to see one of my biggest pet peeves of mine alive and well in the knife community. I am an overly honest person and have never been a good salesmen. I have trouble understanding how someone can baton the crap out of a knife, scuff the finish, dull the blade and then turn around and sell it for the same price he paid for it new. I couldn't sleep at night with that on my conscious.

Thanks for the replies.
 
GregS: I hope you are not taking offense by my original post. If you were selling knives for the same or less than what you paid, you are clearly not the type of person I am talking about. Also, I have no problem with Busse's prices. I have already prepaid for the AA and my first custom shop order totaled almost $1700.
 
Havoc550 said:
I have trouble understanding how someone can baton the crap out of a knife, scuff the finish, dull the blade and then turn around and sell it for the same price he paid for it new. I couldn't sleep at night with that on my conscious.
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It might just be the Busse culture, too. Busses are highly collectible--how they got that way, who knows :confused:
Prices have gone down a lot in general since the summer, and lately I've noticed them going back up a bit.

Maybe another reason--take this as a joke or seriously if you will :p--is that Busses perform so well that a decently used Busse is still as good as a new Busse!

But I think the biggest reason is that a lot of models just aren't available anymore, as someone said.
 
The long and short of it at least the way I see it is-direct from the shop=wholesale price....aftermarket=retail price.
Kind of like being able to buy a Spyderco or anything else direct instead of having to pay the mark up after it has gone through the distributor and then the retailer.
It is very confusing as Busse is the only manufacturer I know of that sells direct to the end line user at the same price it would sell to a dealer and I am thankful for it.
 
Havoc550 said:
verisharp: I have haggled on a few knives and only bought those that were less or damn close to the original price. That factored in with shipping fee's and paypal fee's, I have gotten some decent deals. I would rather not have the knife than look at it on my wall knowing I got taken.

AZTimT: Check out Swamp Rats main page, not the company store, then look at the latest knives on the exchange. There are two examples right there. And the Gladius I have on the way is $400+ cheaper than one that sold on ebay recently. Both black blades with G10, there was nothing special about the ebay model. I know the satin is over twice as much, but that wasn't the case here. The BWM I have on the way as well is $100-$200 cheaper than what people are asking and some of those are used. I know there are special versions and what not, but some look and are described as pretty vanilla.

I know no one is forcing anyone to pay these prices. In the end, its the consumer that decides what they want to pay. However, in some cases, the market can be artificially inflated when a few people mark stuff way up and other people take suit and do the same. That poor guy that wanted that one special knife now has to pay way more because of it. Its similar to when ticket scalpers buy up all the front row seats so none of the real people who want to see the concert can get one. They then jack the price up and become unnecessary middle-men.

I just made my first knife last week and have been really into this hobby lately. I was just disappointed to see one of my biggest pet peeves of mine alive and well in the knife community. I am an overly honest person and have never been a good salesmen. I have trouble understanding how someone can baton the crap out of a knife, scuff the finish, dull the blade and then turn around and sell it for the same price he paid for it new. I couldn't sleep at night with that on my conscious.

Thanks for the replies.
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Havoc550 said:
GregS: I hope you are not taking offense by my original post. If you were selling knives for the same or less than what you paid, you are clearly not the type of person I am talking about. Also, I have no problem with Busse's prices. I have already prepaid for the AA and my first custom shop order totaled almost $1700.
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Congratulations on your orders, you will be getting some sweet blades that you will enjoy should you choose to use them.

Ebay is ebay...:yawn: some good deals, some ripoffs all being sold with additional fees for the service, not really a good place to judge the topic.

Still not following you on the unreasonable exchange pricing.
The Rodent 9 for 198.95 is what comes up on the SR homepage that you told me to look at.
A used one for $190 including shipping and a new one for $215 including shipping are all I saw that are on the first page of the exchange. :confused:

A used Busse(kin) holds its value because it is a Busse(kin) where the warranty applies equally to all owners regardless of how it is used and the quality of the steel & heat treatment is top notch.
It takes a little getting used to if one has only dealt with every other brand of knife out there, but once a person tries these blades out first hand and realize they are not just hype, then the true comprehension of their value, new or used, is achieved.
Chopping wood doesn't dull SR101 or INFI much if at all like it does many other knife steels.



AF, I only know one number for the Busse shop 1-419-923-6471 but it works for all my needs so far.
 
Havoc, you sound like an educated buyer. Good for you. We try very hard here to help other people new to the Bussekin Universe to become educated buyers before they rush into a purchase. Unfortunately, some folk come here after they buy, when it is too late.

So we understand and share your dismay at the behavior of some sellers. But, of course, neither this community nor Jerry Busse has any control over the practices in the aftermarket.

I agree with AZTim on the question of knives currently available direct being overpriced on the resale market. Where do you see that?

You might find this hard to believe, but this past year has been a great time to be a buyer in the aftermarket. Selection has never been better, and prices have fallen since the bubble burst. There are, however, people who bought in near the top, and now try to sell at those high prices.
 
People always make a huge deal out of the aftermarket prices but honestly if you are really into Busse and Kin knives you should be glad that you are purchasing a product that you know is a sound investment.

The aftermarket prices can be steep but thats just what happens when people want a quality product.

Alot of the aftermarket price increases come from transferring ownership of the knife. every time someone sells the blade there is a ~$15 increase because thats what shipping and paypal cost. Sell a knife 2-4 times and there is already a big increase in prices just based on the knife being moved, not even so much availability.


I for one am really glad that Busses increase in value because this gives me the freedom to buy one and if I don't like it I can always resell it without worrying about losing too much money.

Basically if you only want one specific Busse model that came out a while ago, you are going to have to pay higher prices most likely and you will have a negative view of the Busse business model and secondary market.

However if you are a full blow addict like me that buys a new Busse every time you have have enough money, you'll be thankful for the system because

1.) Busse's business model allows for a HUGE variety of blades that no other company out there can provide. Seriously there are so many different models and variants that basically anything you can imagine (except a folder :P) has been made at some point. There's a giant selection of models to chose from and it makes collecting and using tons of fun. You could never own every Busse model ever made. The same can't be said for ESEE or Fallkniven or somthing.

2.) When you buy a knife you can do it with ease of mind because you know that even if you don't like it you can always break even. For someone who is a poor college kid like me that is essential because if I were losing money on every knife I purchased I wouldn't be able to even collect knives to begin with.

3.) Because the knife retains its value its a stable investment. Say you bought two NMFBM's when they came out because you wanted two colors/ handle options and say you only end up using one. The one you didn't use was $450 when you bought it and is now a cool $650. The one you did use is still worth $450 even though its been beat on. Effectively you just made $200 by having fun and doing something you like. Sounds like a good deal to me.

However as a diehard Busse fanatic I know how frustrating it is to have to pay the huge secondary mark ups on a knife that you really want. I recently paid $700 for an NMFBM and sheath. Thats alot more than it cost when it come out BUT I don't really care because its a sick knife that I love using and I know that even if I had to sell it tomorrow I would only lose like $30 or so and maybe break even if I was lucky.

So anyways I personally love the Busse business model because it allows for tons of innovation and even though the secondary market sucks sometimes its better than having everything decrease in value.
 
GregS said:
People bitch about Busse Combats prices all the time. It's impossible to please everybody. Recently I sold a bunch of knives, all well below my cost, and some people had the nerve to haggle then bitch when I wouldn't budge on my prices.
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Sell em to me next time, i won't complain. I promise.
 
Havoc550 said:
verisharp: I have haggled on a few knives and only bought those that were less or damn close to the original price. That factored in with shipping fee's and paypal fee's, I have gotten some decent deals. I would rather not have the knife than look at it on my wall knowing I got taken.

AZTimT: Check out Swamp Rats main page, not the company store, then look at the latest knives on the exchange. There are two examples right there. And the Gladius I have on the way is $400+ cheaper than one that sold on ebay recently. Both black blades with G10, there was nothing special about the ebay model. I know the satin is over twice as much, but that wasn't the case here. The BWM I have on the way as well is $100-$200 cheaper than what people are asking and some of those are used. I know there are special versions and what not, but some look and are described as pretty vanilla.

I know no one is forcing anyone to pay these prices. In the end, its the consumer that decides what they want to pay. However, in some cases, the market can be artificially inflated when a few people mark stuff way up and other people take suit and do the same. That poor guy that wanted that one special knife now has to pay way more because of it. Its similar to when ticket scalpers buy up all the front row seats so none of the real people who want to see the concert can get one. They then jack the price up and become unnecessary middle-men.

I just made my first knife last week and have been really into this hobby lately. I was just disappointed to see one of my biggest pet peeves of mine alive and well in the knife community. I am an overly honest person and have never been a good salesmen. I have trouble understanding how someone can baton the crap out of a knife, scuff the finish, dull the blade and then turn around and sell it for the same price he paid for it new. I couldn't sleep at night with that on my conscious.

Thanks for the replies.
Click to expand...

When your ready to move these on and get something else...contact me: I'll buy them for 30% less and we can try to establish a new trend...who knows, maybe it will catch on?!?:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
 
Havoc550 said:
GregS: I hope you are not taking offense by my original post. If you were selling knives for the same or less than what you paid, you are clearly not the type of person I am talking about. Also, I have no problem with Busse's prices. I have already prepaid for the AA and my first custom shop order totaled almost $1700.
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No offense taken. I'm with you on the silly price gouging with paypal fees and shipping fees and whatever else some deem fit... We had a member here a while ago that was run out of here for predatory sales tactics, preying mainly on noobs. It left a bad taste in my mouth that still lingers.
 
GregS said:
No offense taken. I'm with you on the silly price gouging with paypal fees and shipping fees and whatever else some deem fit... We had a member here a while ago that was run out of here for predatory sales tactics, preying mainly on noobs. It left a bad taste in my mouth that still lingers.
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HHHaaacchh-Liu!!! sorry, must be coming down with a cold or something!?!:rolleyes:
 
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