Help me understand...

elkins45

elkins45

Joined
Jun 17, 2006
Messages
4,090
I'm not a troll, honest. This is an honest question, but I apologize in advance for reopening a long-standing can of worms. I really want someone to explain the difference to me in a rational way.

Why is it that Noss4 is a buffoonish knife abusing hillbilly but these guys are legends of the industry? Watch the whole video and tell me why it is different than what Noss gets so much abuse for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9PIPhBqrLQ
 
What has Noss brought to the table?:yawn:

He doesn't offer awesome knives at good prices then show off what they are capable of all under the best warranty in the business. Noss destroys knives, that's it, he beats them, ruins them, then comments on it. He has a place, I like to watch him kill certain knives, mostly because its nice to see how abuse stupidity they can endure. But then again, I get a kick out of Lynn Thompson's stuff too, how else would I know my Masta Hunta can slice carpet.:rolleyes:
 
Zombie Zeke said:
What has Noss brought to the table?:yawn:

He doesn't offer awesome knives at good prices then show off what they are capable of all under the best warranty in the business.
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That's it. Big difference. These are fanboys (in the best sense) showing off what their favorite knives can do. It's fun, it's funny, and there is no undercurrent of taking down one manufacturer or another, no favoritism, just loyalty. No comparisons, just demonstrations.

Some of us believe Noss4 shades his "tests" to make certain brands look worse than others. That doesn't enter into this video.
 
Zombie Zeke said:
What has Noss brought to the table?:yawn:

He doesn't offer awesome knives at good prices then show off what they are capable of all under the best warranty in the business.
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I don't agree with most of noss's tests but if any thing its the people who do bring something to the table you should question. They are the ones trying to sell you something. I don't know if noss is biased by some personal motivation or not, but he isn't trying to sell me something. If you are looking for a knife that can do anything including hammer, pry, and survive gross abuse, then his tests are relevant. If you just want to cut things with your knife, then look elsewhere and buy a crowbar for the rest.

Either way I think the majority of people who ridicule and insult him do so because they didn't like seeing their knife or brand do poorly in his destruction tests. Like a lot of issues here on BF, it's a fanboy thing. People have their favorites, and they defend them aggressively.
 
Cynic2701 said:
Uh...

Did you not see the girls?
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Nuff said. :thumbup:

Other than that, I don't see the difference - that video doesn't seem to have any more merit than watching that dude with the hockey mask pound knives with a maul or watching some fat executive cut bags of meat with his knives and talk about 'the warrior's edge'.

On the plus side, at least they don't seem to take themselves too seriously, unlike the other two.
 
elkins45 said:
....

Why is it that Noss4 is a buffoonish knife abusing hillbilly but these guys are legends of the industry? Watch the whole video and tell me why it is different than what Noss gets so much abuse for.

...
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The difference is pretty much plain bigotry against Noss4.

You see this when people "test" a knife but the usually groupies don't go on some long tirade about lack of scientific methodology, etc. ad nauseum.
 
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Sevorious said:
I don't agree with most of noss's tests but if any thing its the people who do bring something to the table you should question. They are the ones trying to sell you something. I don't know if noss is biased by some personal motivation or not, but he isn't trying to sell me something. If you are looking for a knife that can do anything including hammer, pry, and survive gross abuse, then his tests are relevant. If you just want to cut things with your knife, then look elsewhere and buy a crowbar for the rest.
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But noss4 is selling you something...... and you may or may not realise it. The Idea that he has a clue about metallurgy and can see thru the marketing veil of any maker to see the truth, that he is the savior of the knifemaking community by exposing marketing schemes,dishonesty and flawed manufacturing.

Sevorious said:
Either way I think the majority of people who ridicule and insult him do so because they didn't like seeing their knife or brand do poorly in his destruction tests. Like a lot of issues here on BF, it's a fanboy thing. People have their favorites, and they defend them aggressively.
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He gets ridiculed and insulted because that is how he and his cohorts handle themselves when any negative views about the tests or the hockey mask are viewed. Yes people are passionate about things and that also goes for the knifetest fans as much as anyone else.

orthogonal1 said:
The difference is pretty much plain bigotry against Noss4.
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Patently Incorrect. The Difference is plain to see. The scrapyard vids are fun and well made.The knifetest vids are not. There is no hiding behind masks or 3lb hammer pounding on knives in the scrapyard vids i've seen. There is not the feeling of the "Need" to prove something in the scrapyard videos. There is no bigotry against Noss4, only a reaction to the reality of the agenda of Noss4, his vids and the way he handles himself in his interactions with the knifemaking and collecting communities.
 
Really
horse.jpg
 
The complete dismissal of Noss4's video results is wrongheaded, shameful, and without merit. People try to cover this fact with a combination of epistemological error and personal attacks. I can appreciate why some might take issue with his original posts on this forum, and with his style of presentation. Beyond that, the treatment his efforts get here is scandalous and unfortunate. :thumbdn:
 
What is actually scandalous and unfortunate is the many knives beaten to death senselessly for such meager information as to show that anything can be broken by a motivated individual. What is scandalous is that knifetests proclaims to provide much more useful factual information than is actually in his videos and that he apparently is wise to some consipracy by manufacturers to bamboozle the knife community thru hype. What is Unfortunate is that there are quite a few people whom fail to see the knifetest hype and just go on believing what they wish to believe.
 
Noss doesn't have ladies eating watermelon and swinging steel. That said, I don't have a problem with him either. It's interesting, it's fun, it's knives. I take it for what it is. Better than watching a knitting tutorial.
 
Karda said:
...


Patently Incorrect. The Difference is plain to see. The scrapyard vids are fun and well made.The knifetest vids are not. There is no hiding behind masks or 3lb hammer pounding on knives in the scrapyard vids i've seen. There is not the feeling of the "Need" to prove something in the scrapyard videos. There is no bigotry against Noss4, only a reaction to the reality of the agenda of Noss4, his vids and the way he handles himself in his interactions with the knifemaking and collecting communities.
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Gee, I guess what one wears has some affect on results. :barf:

What is deemed "fun and well made" is apparently a matter of opinion.

What is this "agenda of Noss4" you write about?

And as concerns "the way he handles himself in his interactions with the knifemaking and collecting communities", I suppose you mean getting a bit testy when a bunch a buddies get together and make repeated personal attacks and unsubstantiated allegations. Gee, I never would expect that :eek:.

And, no, I am not "Patently Incorrect", since there is nothing new or an improvement in the art to be found. People are being bigots, nothing new.
 
Karda said:
But noss4 is selling you something...... and you may or may not realise it. The Idea that he has a clue about metallurgy and can see thru the marketing veil of any maker to see the truth, that he is the savior of the knifemaking community by exposing marketing schemes,dishonesty and flawed manufacturing.


He gets ridiculed and insulted because that is how he and his cohorts handle themselves when any negative views about the tests or the hockey mask are viewed. Yes people are passionate about things and that also goes for the knifetest fans as much as anyone else.


Patently Incorrect. The Difference is plain to see. The scrapyard vids are fun and well made.The knifetest vids are not. There is no hiding behind masks or 3lb hammer pounding on knives in the scrapyard vids i've seen. There is not the feeling of the "Need" to prove something in the scrapyard videos. There is no bigotry against Noss4, only a reaction to the reality of the agenda of Noss4, his vids and the way he handles himself in his interactions with the knifemaking and collecting communities.
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If you make a video and hack you sword'ish thing in to another sword or piece of metal then slices a piece of paper, you're trying to prove something.
 
My primary beef with Noss is that his ideal knife is one that he can use as a crowbar.

While I have no problem with the fact that this is what he wants in a knife, I do have a problem with his trumpeting forth that any knife that cannot be so used is worthless. There are many fellas who don't know any better than to believe this as gospel. It does a disservice to the knife community by promoting "sharpened crowbars" at the expense of knives that are useful to the vast majority of us.

My secondary problem is that he calls it "testing". Nonsense. Without controls, without reproducibility, whatever is done cannot be called "testing".
 
I Think the KnifeTest videos are great.. who cares what he does with knives? if you dont like them..well dont watch... most of us are in a free country? if Noss4 wants to beat knives and make videos about how much a knife can be beaten into the ground well thats his right. anybody can make any video they want and say what they want. even if he has a personal bias on his reviews( dont know dont care) you gotta be smart enough to make your own decision and have your own opinion on what knife you want.. who are any of us to judge another for something that dosnt effect us



and to stay on topic i think Scrapyard has a great video and so does Cold Steel both show product in action
 
I think knife destruction tests overall are critical and I actually think there should be an industry standard destruction test performed on all knives. Arguing that they're pointless because you will never use your knife like that is complete nonsense.

The example I always come back to is car crash tests. Are they worthless because you never plan on hitting a tree or oncoming vehicle?

Or is testing a sports car to see if it can go 200mph pointless because you'd never drive it that fast anyway?

Almost every consumer product under the sun from every brand is typically subjected to stress/durability/safety tests. I always found it interesting that a good portion of the knife community deems these types of testing unnecessary.
 
mrdavidross321 said:
I Think the KnifeTest videos are great.. who cares what he does with knives? if you dont like them..well dont watch... most of us are in a free country? if Noss4 wants to beat knives and make videos about how much a knife can be beaten into the ground well thats his right. anybody can make any video they want and say what they want. even if he has a personal bias on his reviews( dont know dont care) you gotta be smart enough to make your own decision and have your own opinion on what knife you want.. who are any of us to judge another for something that dosnt effect us
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But, it does affect us as a knife community. It also affects the manufacturers and their businesses. The so called "Tests" create unreasonable expectations of knife usage and promote gross abuse of cutlery. They create more confusion than they solve by the fact that they lack proper controls and are inconsistant,which causes bias, add to that any bias by the tester (which his rating system clearly shows) and you are left with nothing more than stunts as a vehicle to gain notoriety on the backs of the community and manufacturers in general. I wouldnt have problem one with the "Tests" if they were not being held up to be something they clearly are not and had value to them more than just being the opinion of someone who enjoys breaking things.
 
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