Help selecting a digital point and shoot camera

Thank you everyone for your ideas and links – I used them all.

As we experimented with cameras in the stores, my wife’s desire for zoom over-ruled my wish for an easily pocketable camera. Also, we realized that we needed a camera that would take AA batteries.

After hours and hours and days and days of research and camera fondling in stores, the camera we bought is a Sony DSC-H2: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonyh2/

This camera was well reviewed at dpreview and other vaunted camera review websites and was rated # 2 in the Consumer Reports issue that just came out.

The problem is that it has been replaced by a newer version and it is no longer being manufactured. However, after 2 days of extensive calling and driving around, we found what must be the last remaining H2 in the state. A screamin deal - it was only $239 and they even included an Epson photo printer for free.

We got the older model because in some ways it was actually better reviewed than its newer replacement model and because it can use AA batteries.

It comes with AA size re-chargeable Ni-MHs and will take standard alkalines for emergency use. It can even use lithium AA’s. Since I already have rechargeable AA Ni-MHs around the house I don't have to buy extra batteries. My wife needs the option to use AA's because she travels to areas where there is no electricity to recharge batteries. She has found alkaline AA’s to be ubiquitous – often available in the middle of nowhere in remote countries.

The H2 has a 12X optical zoom and is in the category of “super-zoom” cameras. Size-wise, this camera is about two-thirds the size of our film SLR – however, it is only about 1/3 the weight of our SLR.

Other than size, I am quite impressed. It is VERY easy to use - all the buttons and menus are intuitive and simple. Much better than any other camera we tried. It also has full manual capability. Shutter lag is virtually unnoticeable except when shooting in complete dark when it uses the IR illuminator to focus. I am very happy with the lack of shutter lag.

This camera does have an optical viewfinder (well actually it is a tiny color electronic LCD). However, after some playing around, I doubt we will use it much unless we are trying to save battery juice or maybe are in extremely bright sun where it might be difficult to see the main screen.

After one day of use, I love this camera.

And, just for anyone else that might be looking, here is what is leftover from my research since I initially looked at all sizes of cameras:
- If I was going to go with the next size down that still used AA's I would pick the Canon A640.
- If I was going to go with a subcompact model I would go with a Sony DSC-T100.

I used all of the links mentioned by you guys in this thread and looked at cnet reviews and the July issue of Consumer Reports. I also went to MANY different stores to try out the cameras.

Eventually I will buy a pocketable camera for me.

Thanks for all your help,

--SAK
 
alejandrino said:
Olympus has a new one out for about $499.00 with an 18x zoom and IS0 to4000. Has to be the best on the market now but abit pricey!
Click to expand...
I have been using my Olympus SP550UZ for about six weeks now. The 18X zoom is everything I expected. It really lets you reach out and get shots otherwise impossible. And you can do it instantly without changing lenses like with SLRs.

On the downside, I am quit disappointed with the 1+ second shutter lag. It really limits the camera's ability to take action shots of any kind. Shutter lag also frustrates efforts at capturing spontaneous facial expressions. I find pre-focus (pressing partially down on the shutter release ahead of time) is only a limited solution since the subject has to stay still for it to work.

One quick fix for the problem is using the three shot burst feature as long as there is good light.
 
mete,

Thanks! That is a GREAT document on the H1, H2, H5 - much appreciated.

It also adds more confirmation that I found a good camera.

--SAK
 
Granted, this response is a bit like telling the newb who asks 'what's a good camping knife'; to go buy a sebenza - but SAK, mate, get a DSLR.

I used 3 different P&S's over the years and they all took great shots once you learned to work around their limitations - but the minute I started playing with my Nikon D80 - I knew I could no longer accept a subsitute.

- Instant start-up
- Almost instant focusing
- Amazing low light performance
- Easy to manipulate parameters to get the shot you want if you understand apeture, depth of field, shutter speed etc.
- Big CCD for better colour rendition and resolution.

I find the added responsiveness a real plus with friends and family. You never miss that candid shot with an SLR.

The attached shot is a case in point - when little angus started hus run up for this jump my D80 was still in the bag. I pulled it out, flicked it on and nailed him in mid-air - try that with a P&S.

airangusfordpreview.jpg
 
Ming65 - I agree with all you said. A good digital single lens reflex is far and away, the best at capturing the moment. My Olympus 550UZ has a great zoom lens but the camera itself adjusts focus and exposure too slowly for action photography. Attempting to shoot birds in flight, for example is simply an exercise in frustration because the long shutter lag.

I made a mistake by buying a large point and shoot. For the type of photography I enjoy, I need a DSLR. They are bigger and heavier than the viewfinder point and shoot models but they make up for it with more advanced capability.

For people who feel they can live with the limitations of a digital point and shoot, it might be a good idea to go with one of the smaller, lighter models. Their strenth lies in their compact, lightweight portability and affordable price. They are very handy and vastly popular.
 
Yeah Vorpalblade the superiority of the DSLR is still pretty clear. I wonder how the more compact SLR's like the Nikon D40 and Olympus E400 are going sales wise - I guess they are targeted at the sort of market that buys the super zooms and will rarely consider a different lens.

Still - with the low power, hi rez CCD's that are currently being developed - the debate will become moot very soon. Convergence is nigh!

ps: I'm still looking for a rugged compact p&s for walking and biking!
 
Ming65 said:
ps: I'm still looking for a rugged compact p&s for walking and biking!
Click to expand...
Ming65,

How about the new Olympus 770SW?
According to Olympus it is shockproof, waterproof, freezeproof and crushproof. You can drop it (from 5ft), dunk it (to 33ft), freeze it (-10°C/14°F) or even try to crush it (up to 220lb).

Olympus 770 SW

I never tried it out, but I did run across it when I was doing my research.

--SAK
 
kamkazmoto said:
The current issue of Consumer Reports is all about cameras. Everything from the cheapest point and shoot to the reallllllly high end SLR's.
Click to expand...

From consumerreports.org:

Best Compact:
1-Canon S21S
2-Sony DSC-H2
3-Fujifilm S5200
Best Subcompact
1-Sony DSC-N2
2-Canon SD430
3-Sony DSC-T50
Best "SLR Like"
1-Fujifilm S6000fd
2-Leica LUX1
3-Fujifilm S9000

My first digital was a first generation Nikon Coolpix, back in about '97, it was a terrible camera. It really left a sour taste in my mouth for Nikon's, I sent it back to them twice for repair and it came back with the same problem, it just wouldn't take indooor photos, flash overexposure.

My second and third were Kodak's, which were great cameras for the money, my latest being a Kodak V550.

Based on Consumer Reports I will probably go with one of the recommendations above for my next purchase.

It looks like you picked the right camera in getting the Sony DSC-H2 based on the CR article.
 
Ming65 said:
the superiority of the DSLR is still pretty clear.
ps: I'm still looking for a rugged compact p&s for walking and biking!
Click to expand...

Although the original poster has already made a choice - I thought I'd wade in this one anyway.

I do a lot of photography - mainly music bands live on stage. I post on the web about 3.5K pictures/year - yes, that is about 10 pics per day average every single day.... This current year is an exception I already have over 90 albums up averaging about 30 pics/album.... (links are in my sig)

I own both p&s and dSLR.

I have done photography for longer than I care to count - and have owned some really top stream 35mm film SLRs - some now with legendary status - like Canon F-1, Olympus OM-2n and OM-4; Minolta Maxxum 7xi - so I am well experienced with SLRs.

However my camera of choice for most of my club gigs is a p&s.

I now use a Canon S80 - 8Mp, with both shutter and aperture priority and manual, but the lens is 28-100mm (equiv) - previous to that in most recent order were - Canon S70 (similar to S80 just 7Mp); Canon A70 (3Mp) and Canon Digital ELPH S100 (2Mp).

For most people one can get away with just 2Mp - please see this old thread -

some general Digital Camera advice

Of course things have moved on from that thread by leaps and bounds - but the advice still holds 2Mp is really good enough for sterling quality 6x4 prints, and just "good enough" for the occassional 10x8 - and is gross overkill for most web/e-mail usage.......

Using the long held concensus for print quality by the digicam community of 200ppi(dpi), one can see for 10x8 a 3Mp digicam is good enough - that's 2048x1536 pixels.

However one can hardly get a 3Mp (much less a 2Mp) digicam any more - so why consider higher mega pixels?

Well actually for a long time the publication standard for quality has been scanning prints at 300dpi -
so taking that directly for digital prints we should be looking at 300ppi(dpi) for print quality -
now using that figure one sees for a 6x4 print that's 1800x1200 - still close enough to 2Mp...

But stretch that to a 10x8 print of "exhibition" quality and we end up with 3000x2400 pixels close enough to 7Mp.......
That's why when the 6Mp (3000x2000) dSLRs arrived there was a mass migration to using dSLRs in professional work.

My long held contention was that if a typical 10x8 which normally is the biggest size that most people still examine nose-to-paper - can pass careful/close scrutiny -
then further enlargements to bigger sizes at correspondingly lower ppi will probably be ok.

eg: 10x8 @ 300ppi = 3000x2400 pixels ~= 7Mp
gives
15x12 @ 200ppi - which more than acceptable for most people.
20x16 @ 150ppi - probably OK because of the likely viewing distance.

Note: ~7Mp can yield 8x6 prints at even the critical 400ppi.

So why a P&S for my photography when a dSLR shows so many advantages?
Especially the dSLR I got - the Pentax K100D - with built-in shake reduction.

(1) I work mostly in very dark clubs - and a direct vision optical viewfinder - despite being squinty and small, is actually superior to a dSLR.

(2) longer/slower shutter speeds -means a blackout on the dSLR viewfinder - this is intrinsic in their design - whereas a simple optical viewfinder there is no blackout - this is extremely important (for me) to being able to keep my camera steady/still during the exposure - which a blackout does not aid - think of it this way - how many world champion target shooters close their aiming eye when firing? A follow-through with longer shutter speeds is even more critical to avoid unwanted camera shake.

OK one might argue that a dSLR has much better noise response at higher ISO sensitivity settings than a p&s - which is very true my dSLR gives results at ISO3200 that's better than ISO400 on my p&s - that's a 3 stops gain so I could use a higher shutter speed.

But what I am trying to do (for my photography) is capturing the motion of the musicians on stage which requires slower shutter speeds - so that is a deliberate choice, and if I used my dSLR - I would still be using those slow shutter speeds.

An example is in Post #7 in the thread -

Sticky: Image Editing Tutorial

(3) much smaller/compact, and lighter - makes it much easier for me to manoeuvre around.

(4) much easier to carry around - so my p&s digicam is with me all the time

So that's the reason despite having a "superior" dSLR my camera of choice is still a P&S -

As always YMMV.

In terms of my current pick for P&S -

Canon PowerShot S80 (8Mp, 28-100 zoom) but this is discontinued (so probably was not that popular anyway...)

Canon PowerShot A570-IS - 7Mp with Image Stabilization (IS), with shutter and aperture priority and full manual controls - really well priced (as low as <$200 shipped) but lens is only 35-140mm zoom not really wide enough for me......
1773b001jf9.jpg


Imaging-Resource Review

Review at dcResource

Canon PowerShot SD800-IS - 7Mp with Image Stabilization (IS), but NO shutter and aperture priority nor manual controls. BUT it does have a 28-105mm zoom lens - plenty of "scene" modes and is very compact and stylish - bit pricey at about >$300....
t99204jc3.jpg


Imaging-Resource Review

Review at dcResource

dpReview

--
Vincent
http://clik.to/UnknownVT2007
http://clik.to/UnknownVT2006
http://clik.to/UnknownVT2005
http://clik.to/UnknownVT2004
http://clik.to/UnknownVincent
 
Cool info UnknownVT (and great shot) - Just shows the superiority of this place as an all-round forum. Some of these thread 'drifts' can become very enlightening.

There are definetly places where a P&S is a more functional option, which is why I'm looking for one to compliment my D80.

If one has an artistic bent and learns a lot about what a camera can do then almost any image gathering device will work - there's a bloke in the Philipines who is wowing gallery audiences world wide with images captured in his Nokia phone camera :eek:

Although I'm a writer I'm not a very artistic photographer. In my day job however I use a camera more as a photo journalist would - trying to capture the exact moment that illustrates my point (te be made later in seminars). I noticed the ease of gathering the images and the impact of them went up a considerable notch when I switched to the DSLR.

ps - I love deliberately slow shutter speeds as well. I took this one a few years ago with my 2nd P&S - a lieca D1.

Blurredroughnecks.jpg


Not as good as your band shot - but it always reminds me of the orchestrated chaos of a drill floor going flat out.
 
SAK said:
Ming65,

How about the new Olympus 770SW?
Click to expand...

Thanks mate - it looks good. I guess I'm going to go and get my hands on a few in the next few months. Actually - I'd probably favour compactness with reasonable image quality over ruggedness - after years of taking cameras everywhere, looking after them is second nature to me (dry bag inside a solid camera bag does the trick).

If I was walking somewhere spectacular I'd probably take my DSLR anyway - and live with the consequences on the hills :(

I'm in the early stages of planning a loaded bike tour across Australia next April and don't expect to see too much spectacular scenery or have the time to sit at sunset and do it justice with a camera. The photos I'll take will just be to document the trip - so being pedantic about quality won't be necessary. This is where a compact will come in handy - and in many cases the quality will be superb anyway. Jeez we're getting fussy aren't we?
 
Ming65 said:
I guess I'm going to go and get my hands on a few in the next few months. Actually - I'd probably favour compactness with reasonable image quality over ruggedness - after years of taking cameras everywhere, looking after them is second nature to me (dry bag inside a solid camera bag does the trick).
Click to expand...


There are now true water resistant digicams available -

Pentax Optio W30, and the already mentioned Olympus Stylus 770 SW.
(the rest of the Olympus Stylus range I believe are weather-resistant)

I have problems with both of them -
otherwise I would have considered them -

No Optical viewfinder -
may not be important for some - but it is extremely important to me for the reasons given in my previous post.

No shutter, aperture priority or manual exposure control -
although they obviously have several "scene" modes, can set ISO sensitivity, and have exposure compensation.

Widest setting for lens are 38mm equivalent -
I already find 35mm a bit too narrow for my usage.

--
Vincent
http://clik.to/UnknownVT2007
http://clik.to/UnknownVT2006
http://clik.to/UnknownVT2005
http://clik.to/UnknownVT2004
http://clik.to/UnknownVincent
 
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