HELP W/Equip List - Dream SHop

E

egrossma

Joined
Jan 23, 2007
Messages
12
So I am interested in making knives and was wondering what experienced makers would reccomend as an equip list for a "complete" shop... Most of the equipt can have an alternate use should i ever decide this wasnt for me so I would prefer to spend the money up front and do it right.

I have pretty much settled on a KMG grinder but am uncertain about motor size, wheel size, attachments, etc... What other tools? Etcher? A disc sander? Buffers? Band saw? File sets?

How many of each? What would be you shopping list from Beaumont Metal Works? What manuf for a band saw? Anyone have a "start up list" to build their "dream shop"

I would imagine it would make sense to outsource heat treating because of the specific nature of the equipt..... And the expertise involved.....

Suggestions welcome........

Thanks
 
Startup list:
-Sandpaper
-Steel
-Bastard file
-Hunk of wood

"dream shop" could take 20 years to build and would cost an absurd amount to purchase at the get-go. Start basic, fund all tools with proceeds from your knives. Once you sell enough to afford the KMG, you will be ready to benefit from it's quality. A KMG in the hands of a complete newbie is just a much faster way to ruin blades. Learning how to do things right is more valuable than any tool in the shop.

That being said, "Basic" tools would start at:
-Drillpress
-Grinder
-Micrometer/Scribe

From there, you are talking about endless tools for blacksmithing/forging, Heat treating setups and all tools involved, disc grinders, palm sanders, milling machines, lathes, hydraulic presses, etching machines, CNC machines, all the tools for leatherwork, bandsaws.....you could spend more time making a list than working in the shop.
 
The basics for a well stocked shop would be the following, IMO:


-KMG with 2HP variable speed motor
-Flat platten attachment
-Rotary platten attachment
-Multi-articulated tool arm/rest
-Nice reversible disc grinder
-One of those wonderful Nimba anvils
-One of Darren's vertical forges
-A Paragon or EvenHeat heat treating oven with digital controls
-An oil container with means of controlling temperature for quenching
-A really good work bench with a heavy multi positioning bench vise
-A full set of Nicholson files (standard size and needle files)
-A mill-drill combo from someone like Grizzly (or a nice drill press if the mill is too much...mill tooling can get expensive, too)
-A dremel tool with a whole bunch of bits
-A full set of cobalt drill bits
-A right angle grinder
-A metal cut-off saw
-A good 30+ ton powered hydraulic press would be wonderful
-A metal cutting bandsaw would be great, but you could get by without it
-LOTS of belts for the grinder (20+ of 80, 150, 220, 400 grits as well as multiple 600, 800, 1200, 2000 for sharpening)

There's a whole bunch more I can go on with. If I had to choose a minimum for a well heeled shop, I'd go with the KMG, rotary platten, forge, anvil, heat treat oven, drill press, files, and angle grinder (you can use cutoff wheels and grinding wheels to do a whole lot of chores). If you're not sure that knife making is for you, just get an angle grinder, KMG, files, and drill press. Send the blades out for heat treating. All of those tools can be used for multple purposes whereas anvils and heat treating ovens are fairly specialized.

--nathan
 
Let me clarify a little bit....

First of all I have no interest in forging. I would just assume buy the stock.

I also have no interest in making sheaths at this point so there would be no leather work (maybe do a little kydex but not certain)

As far as starting with a file etc..., i would just assume learn on the equipt i will be working on. I am aware that most people will say to start with the BASIC tools and learn the craft from the ground up. Lets assume i am aware of the pro's/con's of starting the way you suggest vs going whole hog from the beginning.... Lets assume i am beyond that point (have put in my time) and i am looking to "set up shop".....

So, given the above clarifications, how would you proceed? What manuf/model/size/qty/etc for each of the below

Is it better to buy a 3hp vs 2hp? What size lathe? What size band saw? How many buffers?

lathe
benchtop cnc
band saw
buffers
drill press
file sets


All, Thanks again for all of your help and please dont take my comments as ungrateful?
 
There are as many answers to your question as there are armpits in the world :D. Everyone has a favorite brand/model.

Your question has a wide breadth. Can't help you too much with most of the bigger machines. Honestly, though they would be nice to have, I don't know if they are really necessary to make a quality knife.

If you get a KMG with good tool rest and flat or rotary platten, you'll be in a much nicer world than 99% of people starting out. If you've got a list of must haves, I'd put that on top. As for the motor, 3hp is of course more desirable than 2hp, but with a premium price. Also, consider that you will have to have 220V to power it.

A good upright 12" bandsaw set up for cutting metal will be nice to have as well. Check out www.grizzly.com under metal cutting bandsaws.

Many here will tell you that a buffer is the most dangerous tool in the shop. I've had blades whisked from my hand several times and I was being careful. I only use a buffer to polish the edge after sharpening now. One is all you need, but you'll want to get 4 or 5 buffing wheels, one for each compound you use.

A good 14" or 17" floor standing drill press is more than most people start out with. Make sure it's got multiple speeds (most have 12 or 14). See Grizzly for that as well.

For stainless steels, Paul Bos is highly recommended for heat treat.

Paul Bos Heat Treating
paulbos@buckknives.com
660 S. Lochsa Street, Post Falls, ID 83854
(208) 262-0500, x 211

Hope this helps some. I'd suggest picking a single tool/machine and starting a thread for recommendations for just that item as opposed to a shotgun approach. Just might help get more answers for those who have specific experience with those type of machines.

--nathan
 
Start with the SHOP. Get about 4x more room you might think you will need. I would like a 2500sqft but am stuck with 800. Then you can stuff it full of all the goodies mentioned above.
 
Where will you be working and putting all your equipment? Power, wiring, lighting, air filtration and plumbing are important considerations. I agree with Chuck. Make it as big as you can, with as much power, light, air and water as you can. It's fun to imagine the work-flow and floor plan. I find this exercise easier to do by thinking of function, then stuff:
  • Admin, ordering, internet, finances, etc (desk)
  • Design and drawing (draft table)
  • Material inventory (storage)
  • Profiling (band saws)
  • Shaping (mill, lathe, grinder)
  • Heat treat (farming out)
  • Finishing (sander, buffer, etcher)
  • Makers mark (etch, stamp or hire out)
  • Sales: displaying, packaging and delivery (sheaths, cases, etc)
  • Shop and maker maintenance (sinks, shower, etc)
In general I would like to have as much of my equipment, not only powerful, but variable speed. That usually means at least 220V with an inverter. I'd do this for more than just the belt grinder. To be able to slow down, or speed up, the band saw is good. (Speaking of which, a convertible vertical/horizontal combo saw might be good.) An infinitely variable speed reversible drill press is great. For instance, you can slow it down enough to use for tapping threads (cutting and reversing.)

It seems many stock removal folks do their work with grinders, but some really excel at milling. That'd be a cool direction to go in if you're up for it. It seems there'd be a lot less respiratory threats too, which is an important consideration! Also, if you plan on creating repeatable designs, being able to program your equipment to duplicate them would be great.

Anyway, this is all from a fellow who is totally boot-strapping his way along. If I could have my dream shop I would absolutely start with the shop space itself. I'm into forging so that'd be my basic direction. That being said, I am, never-the-less, constantly watching our local Craigslist for a mill and lathe (among other stuff).

I hope you keep posting as to what you decide and setup. It'd be a real gift to many of us to learn from you efforts.

Thanks, Phil
 
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