Help - what is OK to have in a signature?

[Herlock]

Hi Tech Support!

Hope you’re doing fine. I’m writing to you to better understand what is acceptable to have in a signature here. I have been suggested by a Fellow Member here to take away this YT link because of its supposedly “political” content. Link to the posts exchange here. Since it seemed to hurt some sensibilities, I temporarily removed it from my sig; it’s no big deal for me and I surely don’t want to offend anyone here.

Anyway, I would like to have a more precise explanation and an answer about if something like this would be OK or NOT OK and some precise guidelines about what can go into a signature and what can not, since, nonetheless, this (i.e.: having the possibility to show something in own sig space) is something paying members exactly pay for.

Now, in our age (O tempora, o mores!) literally everything can be “political”. The link I had, for me, is all about my pride of belonging to my own “extended” Fatherland (Europa) and some historical highlights. Nowhere I find this offensive, leave it alone being associable to an hate speech. Actually it’s a love declaration! If we go down this road, then, in every Gadsden flag, Confederate flag, Spartan shield/helmet, Regional flag, Coat of Arms or Regiment Insignia, Roman Legion Insigna, etc. and even in many avatar pictures/names themselves we have here, one can read “political” messages.

I’m a guest here, a paying one, but still a guest and I’m always trying to respect the rules of the house. Sometimes, given my English language comprehension ability or the fact things can have a different meaning and acceptance depending on where one is located, I can run into some faux pas and then I need some help.

So, where to draw the line?

Thanks a lot for kind attention, help and any clarifying word about this.

KR/Herlock

 

[BladeScout]

Fine, that you ask here - always good to get an official/MOD opinion.

A small detail: I dont see any 'hurt senibilities' let alone any mention of 'hate speech' in the poncho thread linked to and certainly not in my posts there - that is purely your own invention/deduction (but funny you should mention it - you are the only one to do).

Again - as mentioned in the thread - I was merely giving you (what I consider) friendly advice.

If a MOD sanctions your sig and find there is nothing in your 'Europa Erwache' link (with its connotation to the past) to reflect badly on BF, then that is fine.

No skin off my back.

Best of luck.

 

[BladeScout]

I honestly didnt mean anything more than friendly advice but now that you brought it up here, I dug a little deeper.

I didnt know the source of your youtube link but just now having read up on it, some French articles describe the 'Institut Iliade' as being extreme droite' (extreme right wing) and also claim that its 'ideologie' being 'Racialisme' /racist ideology.

I havent vetted the various sources.

http://www.france-politique.fr/wiki/Institut_Iliade_(ILIADE)

Anyway, as for the wording itself - Europa Erwache - one just has to google/google picture those two words to instantly know, why I originally commented.

Historical context; 'Deutschland Erwache' was a NSDAP slogan. Try to google picture the words.

In the Europe you speak of, any German using that slogan 'Europa Erwache' is instantly reqognized as being of a certain political conviction....., a conviction, which has nothing what so ever to do with for example the proud Gadsen flag.

Not to put a too fine point on it, but that person would not have a whole hell of a lot in common with the owner of this forum, thats for cotton pickin' sure!

 

[BladeScout]

Hi Tech Support!

Hope you’re doing fine. I’m writing to you to better understand what is acceptable to have in a signature here. I have been suggested by a Fellow Member here to take away this YT link because of its supposedly “political” content. Link to the posts exchange here. Since it seemed to hurt some sensibilities, I temporarily removed it from my sig; it’s no big deal for me and I surely don’t want to offend anyone here.

Anyway, I would like to have a more precise explanation and an answer about if something like this would be OK or NOT OK and some precise guidelines about what can go into a signature and what can not, since, nonetheless, this (i.e.: having the possibility to show something in own sig space) is something paying members exactly pay for.

Now, in our age (O tempora, o mores!) literally everything can be “political”. The link I had, for me, is all about my pride of belonging to my own “extended” Fatherland (Europa) and some historical highlights. Nowhere I find this offensive, leave it alone being associable to an hate speech. Actually it’s a love declaration! If we go down this road, then, in every Gadsden flag, Confederate flag, Spartan shield/helmet, Regional flag, Coat of Arms or Regiment Insignia, Roman Legion Insigna, etc. and even in many avatar pictures/names themselves we have here, one can read “political” messages.

I’m a guest here, a paying one, but still a guest and I’m always trying to respect the rules of the house. Sometimes, given my English language comprehension ability or the fact things can have a different meaning and acceptance depending on where one is located, I can run into some faux pas and then I need some help.

So, where to draw the line?

Thanks a lot for kind attention, help and any clarifying word about this.

KR/Herlock

I believe, we see very different things in the video and might be of different opinion in regards to the 'Institut Iliade' and the use of the slogan 'Europa Erwache.'

As for the slogan you chose; I have several German friends. Some are voting left, some right. Common denominator; 'They'd all find the use of the slogan 'Europa Erwache' crass if not downright offensive.

...just saying.

As mentioned, prior to digging a little deeper caused by you posting this Tech Support thread, it was initially meant as a bit of friendly advice prompted by a link posted by you and with what could be construed as having content of a political nature.

 

[Herlock]

Hi BladeScout . Thanks for your openness and straightforwardness in voicing your real concerns and structuring the arguments of your discomfort with this. I appreciated it and also thanks for sharing your true emotions and feelings about this. WOW, it isn’t such a big deal for me but it looks something quite big for you! Good we take the time to discuss and clarify.

Exactly because of all the things you wrote here – and the many more other Members may come up with, have opinions and speculate about – I believe it’s important to have a precise standpoint from the site Administration on the case at hand and, on a more general level, I’d appreciate some clearer and more precise rules. For example, following your line of thoughts here, it might very well happen that tomorrow another Fellow Member have concerns and discomfort with the picture in my avatar because of it e.g. too closely resembling the Totenkopf Insignia. Sure I’ll have no problems in changing it with e.g. Winnie The Pooh (though the match with my name will be spoiled), but where to draw the line?

About you and me: I consider you a Fellow Member, a senior one here. You have friendly addressed to me a concern of yours and highlighted a discomfort about something I have posted. As a Fellow Member of this Community myself, I felt compelled to act upon this. I simply took a two-steps action; one step towards you, to practically remove the cause of your concern and discomfort and the second one towards the Community, in order to understand better the ground rules, double-check if my behavior has been compliant or not and, if not, to try to avoid future reoccurrence of same/similar mistakes from my side. Sorry you have misunderstood this. There was no ill intent in any of these from my side. Take care.

 

[BladeScout]

Its no biggie at all, Herlock.

It started out as a friendly reminder and as it got posted in Tech S, I explained my reasons for said friendly reminder and explained how the slogan and/or video could be perceived by others.

Assuming that you dont have any leanings as those outlined above, I simply assume, that you werent aware of the connotations and the background of the Institut Iliade.

Nope, no concerns nor discomfort per se, I assure you - simply initially telling you, so you dont catch the attention of a MOD.

We are a tad beyond that now ;-)

I have no problem with neither Winnie the Pooh nor your use of the skull and bones as an avatar.

The latter is after all in widespread use on everything from hipster T shirts over motorcycles to Halloween gear anyway.

It is after all a very old 'memento mori.'

Use of the skull harks back to way before the 20. Century.

That the Third Reich forever tainted one version of the old Prussian Hussars insignia is another matter altogether.

Some might be offended by some versions of the skull.

As previously stated, we might simply perceive the link differently - you have stated that you see it as a homage to the old 'Fatherland' (though Germans of all Europeans try to avoid that word - they have a hard time even flying their own flag, as its perceived as being nationalistic).

Im giving you the benefit of the doubt. You might not have known the implications of the slogan 'Europe Erwache' and you might not be aware of the background of the Institut Iliade.'

I didnt know of their existense either, until I looked into it, when the matter was posted here in Tech S.

 

[knarfeng]

Well, at this point, I don't know what was in the signature to begin with. So it's hard to give an opinion.
General guidelines for signatures:
♦Can include links to the member's BF sales threads
♦Cannot include links to the member's eBay sales.
♦Cannot be a billboard with huge number of sales links or huge pictures
♦Must be work friendly. For example: No porn pics or links.
♦Can't be inflammatory. For example: No promotions for hate organizations or political candidates.

Signatures are supposed to be a way to personalize your posts. They are not supposed to be a massive statement of who you are. Linking to external sites in a signature is, in general, not a good idea. It's outside the scope of what a signature is supposed to be. It is not strictly prohibited, because there are exceptions that work. For instance, I have seen links to quotes. A partial quote would be in the signature with a link to the full quote.

 

[BladeScout]

I dont know why it was deleted, if the point of the excercise was to elicit an opinion from a MOD.

The link in the SIG read 'Europa Erwache' and linked to the below video espousing a 'European awakening,' the 'Institut Iliade' (according to several sources an extreme right wing and racist organisation) and Dominique Venner (supposedly a French right wing extremist).

DV
https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominique_Venner

First bit is about Europe and last bit about the 'awakening.'

My original post to him was merely a friendly reminder to maybe remove the link, as politics are not encouraged in open forum.

 

[Herlock]

Hi knarfeng . Thanks a lot for this explanation and the guidelines you have provided here. Very useful for me! Given these, I stay reassured that no violation to the rules has happened from my side. Anyway, since I’ve joint here to relax, learn and have fun and I would like this to be the case for everyone, I have no problems to remove something a Fellow Member could consider as a source of concern and discomfort. I’ll pick something else or live without a sig, it’s really a minor issue.

Hi BladeScout . Yes, your concern and discomfort has been noted, understood and acted upon. I need to ask you to return the courtesy though. This you have posted is worded in a way that I perceived as offensive. It sounded to me as if, because of an individual - by coincidence Italian – acted in a wrong and dishonest manner, an entire country or population it’s to blame and looks capable of producing anything but crooks and scammers and, somehow, the rather prejudiced and bigoted behaviour of the “gazillion vendors” you’re mentioning, excluding Italy from their pool of sales countries, seems justified and applauded by you. I’m very sure this has never been your intention since it would seems strange someone commits the very same sins he/she is condemning in others. You maybe want to show the same sensibility to change what sounds to me – a non-English mother tongue – a rather poor wording. Thanks.

Geez, what a horrible thing to have happen - my symphaties.

Small wonder, that a gazillion vendors have the postage caveat 'Italy excluded' on their sites.

Since I got all the answers I was looking for and the needed clarifications about, any Moderator can close this thread. Thanks again to everyone and have a good week!

 

[BladeScout]

Hi knarfeng . Thanks a lot for this explanation and the guidelines you have provided here. Very useful for me! Given these, I stay reassured that no violation to the rules has happened from my side. Anyway, since I’ve joint here to relax, learn and have fun and I would like this to be the case for everyone, I have no problems to remove something a Fellow Member could consider as a source of concern and discomfort. I’ll pick something else or live without a sig, it’s really a minor issue.

Hi BladeScout . Yes, your concern and discomfort has been noted, understood and acted upon. I need to ask you to return the courtesy though. This you have posted is worded in a way that I perceived as offensive. It sounded to me as if, because of an individual - by coincidence Italian – acted in a wrong and dishonest manner, an entire country or population it’s to blame and looks capable of producing anything but crooks and scammers and, somehow, the rather prejudiced and bigoted behaviour of the “gazillion vendors” you’re mentioning, excluding Italy from their pool of sales countries, seems justified and applauded by you. I’m very sure this has never been your intention since it would seems strange someone commits the very same sins he/she is condemning in others. You maybe want to show the same sensibility to change what sounds to me – a non-English mother tongue – a rather poor wording. Thanks.







Since I got all the answers I was looking for and the needed clarifications about, any Moderator can close this thread. Thanks again to everyone and have a good week!

As I have explained to you several times (repeated ad nauseam), there is no discomfort involved on my part in regards to the thread in question.

As I have also explained to you several times It was initially meant as a friendly reminder to avoid politics.

We are now past that of course.

After I researched the background to your link (prompted by you posting the matter here in Tech S) and the background for your poor choice of words in regards to you use of the slogan of the extreme right 'Europa Erwache,' I notice that you have not distanced yourself from them

I should of course just have reported the matter instead of getting involved but as best as I can recall, I hitherto have never reported another forum members post (except for SPAM).

I thought the aforementioned friendly advice would be heeded, so no MOD would need to spend time on what was thought trivial at the time - and not least so you would not get caught between a rock and a hard place due to your posting of what we now know is extreme right wing propaganda.

As for my perfectly valid and relevant post in a different thread about an Italian scammer and the precarous circumstances of posting anything of value to Italy, that is not pertinent to this thread.

You can bring it up in the relevant thread and Ill gladly answer there. Or you can report it.

Im surprised you bring it up here, as its not relevant to this thread what so ever.

One could be led to believe, that it has caused you a modicum of discomfort.

 

[bhyde]

Sticking a fork in this one