Help with drill bits

[Dixieblade57]

The steel I have been using to make my knives by reduction method is that of an old two man saw. The steel is high enough carbon that if I don' cook it cutting out the blades it will hold a real good edge. It has on every knife so far.
A master baldesmith told me that is would hold a good edge more than likely just as it was. Not to temper because it would make it too brittle, especially without annealing first! On my first blade I spot annealed to allow for drilling the knife handle. The Master Bladesmith said this should be OK as long as I didn't let it carry from the tang into the blade.
OK here is my problem. Even spot annealing I am burning up bits. I have used anywheres from 1/16" bit to 1/4" bits for the holes in the handle even spot annealing or drilling while the spot is red hot. I am only averaging one to two holes per bit! That is getting a little pricy. I even tried the concrete bits someone said would drill OK. They didn't do any better that a standard cobalt bit from Lowes! Two holes if lucky and the carbide is gone.
Question where can I buy small diameter bits that will drill hard steel and what are they called? I figure that if I can buy one good bit of each size and it will keep drilling, I will be ahead of the game. My last knife had 4 - 1/16" holes and 7 or 8 at about 3/16" for glue holes. I burnt up 5 or 6 bits. I am going broke buying small drill bits.
Any help here would be greatly appreciated.

 

[B Finnigan]

Your drill press is too fast. I never drill any steel faster 100-120 rpms with HSS or even cobalt bits. Try using a coolant and using short 1 second pulses to minimize the heat build up. And start thinking about a higher grade drill press that allows you to use lower RPMs.

I have been making file guides for members over on another forum and drilling through 1" of S7. So far I have made 57 of them and am still using the same 7/32 drill bit. It's just a TiN coated HSS made by Master Mechanic. The trick is I am only using 100 RPM's and keeping the flutes cleared out evrey few seconds.

I will be switching to carbide tipped just so I can drill a bit faster but in th mean time slow and steady has been working fine.

 

[mdoyle]

The problem is NOT your drill bits. The problem is your steel, and quite frankly the advice you received from your friend. Your steel really should be properly annealed first, then you won't have the trouble you are having with bits. Also the comment that tempering will make it too brittle , well that's just something you see along country roads that comes from the back of horses. Next problem, you don't know what the heck you are using as far as steel. Good chance it's either 15N20 or 1075, but you don't know which...
Anneal, drill your holes, grind your blade, normalize, normalize, heat to no magnetic, quench, temper @ 350, and check your edge. May need to run your next temper cycle @ 375 or 400 and check again to make sure your edge is not too brittle.
Matt Doyle

 

[weyland-smith]

try using carbide bits, they can drill fairly well through most steels as long as it hasnt been hardened at all. Try looking for them at home depot, hope that helps!

 

[Steven Penner]

http://www.mcmaster.com/

Product number
8944815

Solid Carbide Straight-Flute Drill Bit
1/8" Drill Size,
2-1/4" L Overall,
5/8" L Flute

( be careful - the word carbide gets thrown around alot for marketing BS. I have never found a real solid carbide drill at my local Home Depot store)
this drill is $15.00

Macmaster Carr dosen't allow direct links to the product

This is an example of a carbide drill that will drill through hardened steel.
It is a brittle drill and requires a drill press and rigid setup - clamp it down
- I like to set the speed to the lowest i can.


If your friend is a real "master smith" then I expect that they know what they are talking about...there may be a miscommunication somewhere.
"tempering" will not make steel more brittle. It is the low temperature portion of the heat treatment (after hardening) that will make the steel less brittle.

 

[delbert ealy]

I second Steves suggestion, I use these bits frequently.
Thanks,
Del

 

[sharpeknives]

Dixie,
Stephen is right on target. I have used (straight flute solid carbide bits) to drill threw ATS-34 blade after heat treat at an RC of 61. You can get them on E-Bay 1/8 around $5.99. Run your press as slow as it will run. Use a drilling tapping oil I highly recomend Tap Magic, It is pricey last I bought was $21.00 a quart. Worth every penny.

 

[Dixieblade57]

OK, I got it, I can slow my drill press down to a crawl if I need too. Live and learn and I am learning!
Thanks for the heads up on the bits Steven, that is what I have been looking for exactly.
Let me try to explain the two man saw, "I am poor, there I said it, and I feel better for saying it"!!!!!!!

It is a mystery steel, but it is darn good carbon in it I have determined and as far as using one for skinninig and such it absolutely great. I have already proved that to myself. I skinned out a deer and it would still shave the hair off of my arm when I finished!

One more explanation I do not a present have any way to heat treat a knife. I have built a forge but have no burners for it yet. Still looking for an anvil but so far no luck. I thought I had a lead on one but, I got a wrong price and when I asked the guy if he'd take $25.00 less than he was actually asking. Well he ain't bothered to answer my email back, so guess I lost that one!

Any way so when I inquired about this steel to my friend told me as long as I did not over heat while cutting the blanks out or grinding down this steel should take an edge and hold it fairly well without doing anything else to it.
My problem has been to get holes through the blades for handles, IE (pins and glue holes) I have had to spot anneal, and still was burning up my share of bits. Belive me this steel is hard!!

My friends concern if I understood his advice correctly as to what he was saying. Was if I fashoined a knife out of this steel and tried to heat treat on top of the already fairly high temper of this steel would make the blade easy to break, or brittle. Now I am not sure he used that word brittle but that's what I took it to mean. His advice was that if the steel did not seem to be of proper hardness after I got my blade shaped I should anneal and then heat treat to get a proper heat treatment.
Now I could have misunderstood him but it seems to me that I heard the same advice given to someone who was concerned that the knife didn't harden along the entire edge. Take it back down and the go through the heat and quench and then heat treatment all over again to get proper hardness.
I hope I explained myself here and I hope I am understanding the process correctly! Heck I could be confused it wouldn't be the first time!!!!!!

 

[AK Knives]

I second what Matt said. You may think about purchasing a known steel like 0-1 that is annealed. It will be easier to grind and drill. What you save on belts and drill bits will cover a large part of the steel. 0-1 is easy to heat treat and when your done you know what you have.

Adam

 

[okzj]

Sounds like you know you're not in an ideal situation. That's fine. Use the saw blade steel to practice grinds until your forging setup if up and running. Until then, yes, you will have to use carbide bits to drill the hardened steel.