Help with Edgepro Again

B

beakman

Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
29
Hi Guys,

Looking for some more help with Apex. Started out with semi sharp blade but not anymore. Printing is worn of off of 120grit stone already! Should I try and flatten this stone at this point.
I know you guys and gals have already given me some pointers on it use and have checked many threads upon its use but can anyone give me the most critical ones off the top off their head'
This thing is starting to work like the Lansky which I think is junk.
Is there still HOPE!

Desperate in Central N.Y. State
Eric,

P.S. My Kingdom for a Shaveing Sharp Knife.
 
It's time to flatten your 120 stone. It's time to make flattening stones part of your creed (speak with your spiritual minister first to rule out idolatry). Waterstones cut faster than other stones by wearing down faster to expose fresh, sharp abrasive which is why they dish faster.
 
beakman,
I sharpened a half dozen folders before I noticed the 120 label was starting to fade. I held a straight edge to it and looked for light between.

I've been matching the original bevels as best I can to minimize the amount of 120 work needed. Even with that it still seems to require the 120 for the 1st sharpening.
 
Hey Eric,

If you started with a semi-sharp knife, and used the 120g stone until it was dull, you're using the 120g stone too much. It's a very coarse stone and will just tear up an edge. This stone is to set the bevel, as you get close to the edge, switch to the finer stones.

As a sidenote, yes the stones should be flat, but I've never flattened the 120 stone. I'm using one now that is visibly dished, but to set the bevel, it hasn't caused me any issues. The finer stones (mainly the 320 and 600) are the ones that should be flat for that final edge, and the nice thing is, they don't wear/dish very fast at all.

The big tip here... don't let the 120 stone go all the way to the edge.

Edited to add: One more thing I was going to mention, is don't apply very much pressure to the stone, let the stone do the work. You'll be surprised how well it will cut, with not much more than the weight of the arm.

cbw
 
Get a small square or a metal ruler you know has a straight edge (surprisingly enough they often aren't perfectly flat on the edge) lay it on the stone, shine a light on the edge if a flare of light hits the wall it's time to flatten. Flat stones will last longer. The 120 goes fast.

On the 180, 220, 220MF, 320, and 600 these will dish much slower, they are harder and they are refining tools so they don't take as much abuse. I find that even if they aren't dished at all, that a quick lap on silicone carbide on glass before I start sharpening ensures they are totally clog free, exposes new grit, and helps in them perform better.

With the 120 stone use it only enough to set your relief grind. Stop using it when it hits your previous bevel. Use a permanent marker before starting to sharpen. Mark the entire existing bevel on both sides. Start grinding in your new angle. I quit using the 120 before it hits the edge, ie when I've reduced the marker on the bevel by half but as yet haven't touched the edge.

Switch to your next stone. 180, 220 or the newer 220MF, again cut away half of the remaining bevel marking. You should now have a bare minimum of marker left. At the 320 grit you should just be touching the edge entirely along the edge. Use your magnifier, if you don't have one get one. Getting up close and personal SEEING your edge will let you know exactly what you're doing. Knowledge of where the stone is hitting and what the stone is doing will result in sharper edges.

Let the stones do the work! Don't force them. If you force the 120 and go all the way to the edge you are going to get larger burrs and you will tear out the edge. Do not create a burr with a 120 stone if at all possible. Getting rid of burrs at that level can lead to frustration and burrs which can be extremely difficult to remove.

Go slow. Don't flog away like you're killing snakes. Smooth even strokes. Concentrate on a light hold on the knife, let it rest flat, don't choke it to death. A light touch and grip on the handle to stabilize the blade is all that is needed.

The pressure on the stone from the stone arm alone is enough you should be only trying to keep the stone in contact with the steel. Let the stones do the work. I know I said that already but it bears repeating don't force it and let the stones do the work.
 
Cbwx34, Nosmo, and TedGamble are right. I have to compile a list of all these EdgePro tips. I never thought to not raise a burr with the coarsest hone (despite it being something Ben has been saying for years). I'm still not thinking it, but it's making sense.
 
cbwx34 said:
Hey Eric,

If you started with a semi-sharp knife, and used the 120g stone until it was dull, you're using the 120g stone too much. It's a very coarse stone and will just tear up an edge. This stone is to set the bevel, as you get close to the edge, switch to the finer stones.

As a sidenote, yes the stones should be flat, but I've never flattened the 120 stone. I'm using one now that is visibly dished, but to set the bevel, it hasn't caused me any issues. The finer stones (mainly the 320 and 600) are the ones that should be flat for that final edge, and the nice thing is, they don't wear/dish very fast at all.

The big tip here... don't let the 120 stone go all the way to the edge.

Edited to add: One more thing I was going to mention, is don't apply very much pressure to the stone, let the stone do the work. You'll be surprised how well it will cut, with not much more than the weight of the arm.

cbw
Click to expand...

I am with cbw all the way on this one. I keep the 120 well away from the actual cutting edge.
 
Nosmo said:
I am with cbw all the way on this one. I keep the 120 well away from the actual cutting edge.
Click to expand...

With proper technique, even very coarse grits should be sharp. I have seen shaving well with 80 grit AO belts, x-coarse DMT, etc. .

-Cliff
 
I just ordered a complete Edge Pro Apex kit, all this tips are VERY helpful, thanks!

To make an Edgre Pro tips compilation seems like a great idea to me, it'll avoid people (like me probably when I get the edge pro) asking the same things again and again
 
Cliff Stamp said:
With proper technique, even very coarse grits should be sharp. I have seen shaving well with 80 grit AO belts, x-coarse DMT, etc. . -Cliff
Click to expand...

Cliff,

That's true, but that's not the problem that was being discussed here. A person that is just starting out sharpening, with any device or medium, is more likely to just tear up an edge with a coarse stone, and his post indicated that was a possibility. As experience grows, so will the technique. The recommendation not to use a coarse stone on the edge, comes not only from Edge Pro, you will also see it in other places, for example Korin's video.

cbw
 
cbwx34 said:
The recommendation not to use a coarse stone on the edge, comes not only from Edge Pro, you will also see it in other places, for example Korin's video.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it is a common mistake. Sharpening with a x-coarse stone is actually much easier for many reasons, all you are seeing is just the bias towards high polishes = sharper. This is one of the main confusions in sharpening in general and one of the man reasons people have problems initially.

-Cliff
 
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